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jjmolyet 07-20-06 08:53 PM

Tour experts please explain?
 
I have watched most of Lance's victories but no others except DVDs but not much, if times are close on Sunday, will we see a race for the win on the Champs, or will there be Champagne sipping and a parade? During Lance's victories Paul and Phil always seemed to say that there is no racing into Paris, is this a matter of honor not to race, or is it Thunderdome if times are close?

Blackberry 07-20-06 09:23 PM

Well, somebody forgot to tell Greg Lemond there's no racing Sunday. Cuz that's when it snatched it. If it's very close there could be some serious racintg.

ChiefCatchacold 07-20-06 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackberry
Well, somebody forgot to tell Greg Lemond there's no racing Sunday. Cuz that's when it snatched it. If it's very close there could be some serious racintg.

That was a time trial, eh?

Didn't Vino move up a spot last year with time bonuses on the last day?

Blackberry 07-20-06 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefCatchacold
That was a time trial, eh?

Didn't Vino move up a spot last year with time bonuses on the last day?

You speak zee truth.

erader 07-20-06 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefCatchacold
That was a time trial, eh?

yep. and the last time the tour concluded with an ITT.

ed rader

meb 07-21-06 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjmolyet
I have watched most of Lance's victories but no others except DVDs but not much, if times are close on Sunday, will we see a race for the win on the Champs, or will there be Champagne sipping and a parade? During Lance's victories Paul and Phil always seemed to say that there is no racing into Paris, is this a matter of honor not to race, or is it Thunderdome if times are close?

Traditionally the yellow jersey team leads the peloton into and on the first lap on the Champs Elysees, then the sprinters battle. In a tight race, tradition would go out the door.

Hitchy 07-21-06 05:36 AM

Racing will go all the way to the finish line if any of the jerseys are still up for grabs. Fortunately this year Robbie will have won the Green by then & cadel the yellow, after putting 10 minutes into Floyd in the ITT.:D The 'lantern Rouge' might still be up for grabs though.......

Ostuni 07-21-06 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitchy
...The 'lantern Rouge' might still be up for grabs though.......

i forget what that is for? last place?

Hitchy 07-21-06 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ostuni
i forget what that is for? last place?

yep...supposed to signify the 'red lantern' on the back of a train,...... or something like that

filtersweep 07-21-06 06:15 AM

What are they supposed to do? Soft pedal a TT on the last day?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefCatchacold
That was a time trial, eh?

Didn't Vino move up a spot last year with time bonuses on the last day?


Hipcycler 07-21-06 07:18 AM

Parade into Paris, cause the yellow's going to be firmly on the back of Mr. Landis after the TT Sat.

same time 07-21-06 07:23 AM

Yes, I think the champaign-sipping portion of the race would be thrown out the window if the time difference is close enough between first and second.

But, it would have to be very, very close - around ten seconds or so, less than the finishing time bonuses. And it would still be almost impossible to gain any time at all - you'd have to beat not only your opponent, but also all the sprinters at their own game, on a dead flat, very short stage.

Remember that victory on the Champs-Elysees is one of the most prestigous wins for a sprinter, and the final stage is the last chance for any team who hasn't done well in the Tour. So, there are plenty of teams willing to push the pace up to eleven, while everyone else just hangs on.

alanbikehouston 07-21-06 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Parade into Paris, cause the yellow's going to be firmly on the back of Mr. Landis after the TT Sat.

Sitting here on Friday, my guess would be that if Landis is wearing yellow on Sunday morning, his lead over the second place rider is likely to be only around 30 seconds or 45 seconds.

There have been a number of Tours over the past fifteen years where the gap between first and second on the last day was not much more than a minute. Yet, there seemed to be an unspoken agreement that the second place rider would not challenge the first place rider, and they both rode into Paris sipping champagne.

It would seem very odd to me if Sastre is about 30 seconds behind Landis when they are about ten miles from Paris, and Sastre says "What the heck...I'm just gonna relax and settle for second place".

Keith99 07-21-06 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackberry
Well, somebody forgot to tell Greg Lemond there's no racing Sunday. Cuz that's when it snatched it. If it's very close there could be some serious racintg.

Apples and Oranges. That stage was an ITT.

There were soem very exciting ends with an ITT on the final day. But it had already been in decline at that time (contrast to Eddy Merckx where of his 5 wins 4 had a tt last). With an American nipping a Frenchman at the line this was the last final stage TT in hte TDF.

CyLowe97 07-21-06 10:26 AM

ITT into Paris, or the potential to see a Djamalodine Abdujaparov type wreck in the final sprint on the Champs Elysses?

Tough call...

Keith99 07-21-06 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
Sitting here on Friday, my guess would be that if Landis is wearing yellow on Sunday morning, his lead over the second place rider is likely to be only around 30 seconds or 45 seconds.

There have been a number of Tours over the past fifteen years where the gap between first and second on the last day was not much more than a minute. Yet, there seemed to be an unspoken agreement that the second place rider would not challenge the first place rider, and they both rode into Paris sipping champagne.

It would seem very odd to me if Sastre is about 30 seconds behind Landis when they are about ten miles from Paris, and Sastre says "What the heck...I'm just gonna relax and settle for second place".

If just Landis, Sastre and Pereiro were on the road this might be the case. But there are over 100 other riders. There are at least 10 loops at the end where riders are very visible and all gaps are obvious (e.g. ideal for running down a break). Winning the final stage is a jewel in the crown for a sprinter that is just (barely) below a green jersey. The tour organizers put in a stage that is dead flat.

In short the teams of the sprinters will pull back anything. Even if they wouldn't a single rider would have to outride an entire team. So unless it is very close there is no point. It just will not work.

monza 07-21-06 12:13 PM

Is Vino a sprinter?

No, it won't work. Just like it wouldn't work for Landis to attack on stage 17. :)

Walter 07-21-06 02:40 PM

Vino did get away and in the past break aways have ruined the sprinter's day but.....none of those guys were trying to take Yellow. I doubt Disco would've let Vino go if he could've bumped LA. Leipheimer lost 5th place and his team got caught napping no doubt though there was some confusion about bonuses due to weather IIRC.

If Floyd TTs to his capablity he should have a decent lead but one that could, in theory, be brought back by a break away. Just hard to see that break working on the Champs for all the reasons listed in prev. posts.


:beer:

cooker 07-21-06 03:17 PM

So if I understand, it is a stage where the peloton, led by the yellow jersey's team and the sprinters' teams, can and will squelch any breakaways, so unless he only needs to make up a few seconds, there's no point in the second place rider attacking because he would have no chance. Yes?

Keith99 07-21-06 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooker
So if I understand, it is a stage where the peloton, led by the yellow jersey's team and the sprinters' teams, can and will squelch any breakaways, so unless he only needs to make up a few seconds, there's no point in the second place rider attacking because he would have no chance. Yes?

Yea that is pretty much it. It is really no different than other stages, EXCEPT:

1) There is no reason to save energy for tomorrow.
2) It is very flat.
3) The sprinters really value this stage.
4) It is entirely clear just who will be a threat to the yellow.
5) There is no point on getting back some of the time, it is all or nothing.

Sometimes a break will go, but if it contains a threat of any kind the yellow jersey team will make extra sure they stay close enough that the sprinters teams will close it down at the end.

I guess one other difference is that once the champagne is out it is considered very bad form to attack and you would piss everyone off.

Hipcycler 07-21-06 03:55 PM

I guess one other difference is that once the champagne is out it is considered very bad form to attack and you would piss everyone off.

Right.
It just ain't done.

(Unless of course the gap is like, five seconds. Then I wonder what would happen)

ken cummings 07-21-06 04:35 PM

There are people who try for the red lantern, scary as it seems. Like a Cat 5 trying to be the Devil in a Cat 4 Miss and Out.

voltman 07-21-06 04:37 PM

I thought tradition didn't matter any more.


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