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Old 07-22-06, 12:22 PM   #1
donrhummy
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Info and Power data on Floyd's stage 17 ride from Allen Lim

Interesting info on Floyd:

In stage 17, he used 70+ bottles of water (both drinking and dumping over his head).
His radio malfunctioned on the final climb (he thinks due to the water he poured over his head), so he didn't know his gaps going up the Joux Plane.

He had lost a lot of water/weight in stage 16 so to counteract that (and keep him from sweating) they gave him ice cold bottles of water to pour over his head throughout stage 17. (This kept him from sweating as much - which Lim says is better since you can't replace the water in your blood, which is where sweat water comes from, as quickly as you lose it -- so he had more blood to transport oxygen in his legs)

(Landis allowed publication of his power numbers)
When he made his move on the Col des Saisies he averaged 544 watts in the first thirty seconds of his acceleration. This settled down to a 5-minute peak of 451 watts, which then continued for 10 minutes at an average of power of 431 watts. His 30 minute average was 401 watts.

"Floyd averaged 280 watts for the entire ride, but it was 318 for the last two hours. That is while the bike is moving, so you have take into account that he has all those long descents," Lim said. "On the descents he spent 13.2 percent of his time or 43 minutes coasting. If you spend that much coasting but are as good a descender as he is, you are making up time on the descents as well."

"However, if we don’t include the coasting time, he averaged 324 watts while pedalling for the stage and 364 watts over the last two hours. That gave him a total of 5,456 Kjoules of work, at an average cadence of 89 rpm. The nature of it is that everything he did today is within the realms of physiological capacity. It was the style with which he did it, the panache and the bravado and the courage [which stood out]."

Despite the outcome of the ride, Lim said that the outputs weren’t actually the best he has seen from Landis. Of course, two and a half weeks of racing will tend to have that effect.
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Old 07-22-06, 12:32 PM   #2
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thanks for posting. very interesting. 70+ bottles of water! good trick...it obviously helped.
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Old 07-22-06, 03:15 PM   #3
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amazing numbers. The first ones really aren't that big. Heck I can do the 544 to get away, and not that far off the 450 for 5 minutes (unfortunaltely I'm also hauling 50 more pounds). However, the 364 for 2 hours and over 300 for the day is pretty incredible. i'm sure there are a number of people on this forum, faster than me, that can do 450 for 5 minutes. However I doubt anybody can approach the numbers over the longer haul.

What these numbers tell you is that the lead riders could have stayed with him initially. But it would have been hard to match the effort he put out over the day, and they were baking on the belief he couldn't do it. And didn't want to crack themselves trying to match him.
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Old 07-22-06, 08:50 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
amazing numbers. The first ones really aren't that big. Heck I can do the 544 to get away, and not that far off the 450 for 5 minutes (unfortunaltely I'm also hauling 50 more pounds). However, the 364 for 2 hours and over 300 for the day is pretty incredible. i'm sure there are a number of people on this forum, faster than me, that can do 450 for 5 minutes. However I doubt anybody can approach the numbers over the longer haul.

What these numbers tell you is that the lead riders could have stayed with him initially. But it would have been hard to match the effort he put out over the day, and they were baking on the belief he couldn't do it. And didn't want to crack themselves trying to match him.
Really, you can do 450 for 5 minutes going up a category 1 hill?
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Old 07-22-06, 09:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
Really, you can do 450 for 5 minutes going up a category 1 hill?
450w is 450w.. climb doesnt matter
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Old 07-23-06, 09:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dmotoguy
450w is 450w.. climb doesnt matter
No.
450 for a second or two or three is the same, but sustaining it going up a hill is definitely diff. It's the sustained effort that doesn't last.
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Old 07-23-06, 10:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
No.
450 for a second or two or three is the same, but sustaining it going up a hill is definitely diff. It's the sustained effort that doesn't last.
450 watts is 450 watts hill or no hill. I just got my power meter and live on flat land, so I can't test what I have read by the experts, but they say you can actually put out more watts climbing than on a flat. Seems you use more muscles climbing than on flat land.

I think you are asking about the amount of time Merlin says he can sustain 450 watts. He said he was close to 450 for 5 minutes. Based on his previous posts about wattage this seems to be reasonable.

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Old 07-23-06, 10:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by reef58
450 watts is 450 watts hill or no hill. I just got my power meter and live on flat land, so I can't test what I have read by the experts, but they say you can actually put out more watts climbing than on a flat. Seems you use more muscles climbing than on flat land.

I think you are asking about the amount of time Merlin says he can sustain 450 watts. He said he was close to 450 for 5 minutes. Based on his previous posts about wattage this seems to be reasonable.

Richard
Right, but what I've read is it's watts-to-weight that is the true indication of what you're putting out in power, and going up a hill, your weight actually becomes more of a factor (and in a sense more) since it's always "tending" back downward and you're pushing it up hill. In other words, 450 watts with 100 lbs can be sustained longer than 450 watts with 102 lbs by the same person. I'm not sure, however, how much of a diff. in relative weight (if that makes sense) going up a cat. 1 climb makes.
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Old 07-23-06, 12:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
Right, but what I've read is it's watts-to-weight that is the true indication of what you're putting out in power, and going up a hill, your weight actually becomes more of a factor (and in a sense more) since it's always "tending" back downward and you're pushing it up hill. In other words, 450 watts with 100 lbs can be sustained longer than 450 watts with 102 lbs by the same person. I'm not sure, however, how much of a diff. in relative weight (if that makes sense) going up a cat. 1 climb makes.
Watts to weight as you say will determine how fast you can go up a hill, but it has no bearing on how many watts you can generate.

I am not sure what you mean by 450 watts with 100 pounds can be sustained longer than 450 watts with 102 pounds. The weight of a person will not have any bearing on how long they can produce 450 watts. The bigger rider may even have the advantage.

I hate to use you as an example Merlin, but here it goes. Lets say Merlin weighs 200 pounds, and he produces 450 watts on a climb. He is racing Floyd who also puts out 450 watts, but weighs 150 pounds. They both may be able to produce 450 watts for the entire climb, but Floyd will beat him to the top because he weighs less not because it is easier to produce power.

Richard
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Old 07-23-06, 01:15 PM   #10
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They indicated Robiie McEwen can generate 1800W in a burst. Any idea what Magnus can do?
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Old 07-23-06, 09:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reef58
Watts to weight as you say will determine how fast you can go up a hill, but it has no bearing on how many watts you can generate.

I am not sure what you mean by 450 watts with 100 pounds can be sustained longer than 450 watts with 102 pounds. The weight of a person will not have any bearing on how long they can produce 450 watts. The bigger rider may even have the advantage.

I hate to use you as an example Merlin, but here it goes. Lets say Merlin weighs 200 pounds, and he produces 450 watts on a climb. He is racing Floyd who also puts out 450 watts, but weighs 150 pounds. They both may be able to produce 450 watts for the entire climb, but Floyd will beat him to the top because he weighs less not because it is easier to produce power.

Richard
I never meant to imply that Landis wouldn't drop me like a rock in a matter of seconds. And I can't do 450for 5 minutes, but probably a shade under 400. (which at my size makes me a decent cat 4, nothing more) My point was that the intiial attack numbers aren't that high relatively speaking, and any of the contenders that had elected to could have matched the intial move. The impressive numbers were the sustained power. And I think the contenders didn't cover his intial move because they were betting LAndis couldn't sustain that, and they also knew they wouldlikely blow if they had to do that effort for that time.
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Old 07-23-06, 11:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by meb
They indicated Robiie McEwen can generate 1800W in a burst. Any idea what Magnus can do?
I read that Marty Nothstein was hitting 2200 the year he won the gold in the match sprint.

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While the track sprinters have the edge in peak wattage, they are not riding 120 miles before starting their sprints.
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Old 07-25-06, 08:41 PM   #13
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nice post OP, very interesting
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