Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-22-06, 03:07 PM   #1
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
Thread Starter
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
No TTT, in hindsight (May invite spoiling posts)

I'll be careful here not to be a spoiler. However I got to think the race would have played out different with a TTT. Not necessarily a different end result, but certaily the route to the end would have been different. So I thought no TTT was a mistake, eliminating the beauty of that spectacle, making the first week too much sprinting, with nothing to bust it up, and deemphasising team. However now that we had one of the best TDF's ever, (at least top handful in the last quarter century or so.) perhaps it was best we didn't have a TTT.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-06, 03:09 PM   #2
pseudobrit
1.9lb/in
 
pseudobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Susquehanna shoreline
Bikes: LeMond, CAAD9/1
Posts: 1,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I predict T-Mobile would have won. Not sure how that would shake up the overall standings.
pseudobrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-06, 08:10 PM   #3
a_fire_inside
Custom User TItle
 
a_fire_inside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudobrit
I predict T-Mobile would have won. Not sure how that would shake up the overall standings.
I agree.

I think T-Moblile would crush souls (even without Der Jan) and that could have possibly placed Kloden higher.
a_fire_inside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-06, 11:17 PM   #4
Smoothie104
Elitist Jackass
 
Smoothie104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Georgia
Bikes: Cannondale 2.8, Specialized S-works E5 road, GT Talera
Posts: 3,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They had 6 riders in the top 16 in the ITT, no one else was even close to that
__________________
"You should already be aware that riding with people who steer with their elbows, stick food to the top tube of their frames and ride around in dick togs is not a great idea." -- Classic1
Smoothie104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-06, 12:40 AM   #5
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The amount of time Phonak would lose would not be enough for Kloden.

According to the excellent Lance's Armstrong's War (which I am reading now).

Back when Discovery was strong, they put too much time on the other teams in the TTT. Ullrich lost 1:01 in 2003. In response, in 2004 the tour socialized the scoring, so that the second place team would lose only 20 seconds, the third place team 30 seconds, the fourth place team forty, and so on. According to Coyle, the TTT effectively gave the weak teams the day off. Phonak wouldn't take the day off, and likely wouldn't be so far down as to endanger the 1:29 lead Floyd now enjoys.
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-06, 01:46 AM   #6
Hitchy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Oz
Bikes: how long have you got?
Posts: 2,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritterview
The amount of time Phonak would lose would not be enough for Kloden.

According to the excellent Lance's Armstrong's War (which I am reading now).

Back when Discovery was strong, they put too much time on the other teams in the TTT. Ullrich lost 1:01 in 2003. In response, in 2004 the tour socialized the scoring, so that the second place team would lose only 20 seconds, the third place team 30 seconds, the fourth place team forty, and so on. According to Coyle, the TTT effectively gave the weak teams the day off. Phonak wouldn't take the day off, and likely wouldn't be so far down as to endanger the 1:29 lead Floyd now enjoys.
Disagree, TMobile have by far the strongest team & Phonak, one of the weakest. If there was a TTT Kloden would have been the winner of this years tour....but big deal, Floyd won...the fat lady has sung
Hitchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-06, 03:51 AM   #7
classic1
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
I'll be careful here not to be a spoiler. However I got to think the race would have played out different with a TTT. Not necessarily a different end result, but certaily the route to the end would have been different. So I thought no TTT was a mistake, eliminating the beauty of that spectacle, making the first week too much sprinting, with nothing to bust it up, and deemphasising team. However now that we had one of the best TDF's ever, (at least top handful in the last quarter century or so.) perhaps it was best we didn't have a TTT.
I've always been of the opinion that the TTT is an artificial handicap to gun riders on weak teams. It also tends to stack the top of the GC with riders from two or three teams, which can shut down the race. Finally, when the differences aren't done on real times but on bonuses the top teams can bust a gut for very little.

If there is a TTT it should be short. I'd rather see a couple of hilly stages or a mountain stage in the first week. Doesn't have to have a heap of cat 1 climbs, just something to split the peloton. Seems to work ok in the Giro
classic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-06, 09:40 PM   #8
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,650
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I love the TTT and wish it was there but I think it needs a little bit of everything. Flat enough that the TT and sprinter guys should do well but a few hills steep enough that the climbers can have their way too and long enough for the others. Otherwise you just load up your team on what the course demands. And add some time limits that serve their purpose but don't make it a day out of the office for some teams. I think this is doable.
robow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-06, 09:59 PM   #9
TYB069
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison-ish
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez Elite
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I never really liked the TTT. With time limits it just isn't as interesting. When its clear that you can't win, and your loss is 30 or 40 seconds max, teams just seem to let off. That being said, you need the time limits because teams can be overly strong - T-Mobile would have put a couple minutes into everyone other than maybe CSC or Disco this year (w/o time limits of course).

I do like the idea about a mountainous TTT though. Alpe d'Huez in a couple years???
TYB069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-06, 01:29 AM   #10
classic1
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They did a mountain TTT on the Tour of the Mediterranian a couple of years ago. It was a debacle.
classic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-06, 01:36 AM   #11
Wilchemy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes: Wilier, Alchemy, Merida MTB,
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What about a TTT as a prologue but not counting towards overall time? Just put up some cash & a couple of slabs for prizes!
Wilchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-06, 01:39 AM   #12
classic1
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They kinda tried that too - in 88. Vuelta does it regularly. No one knows WTF is going on.

I think a miss and out, progressive points score handicap would be the go.
classic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-06, 01:42 AM   #13
Wilchemy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes: Wilier, Alchemy, Merida MTB,
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ah, didn't know that. But do they offer slabs as prizes??
Wilchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-06, 01:47 AM   #14
classic1
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm up for it, as long as the slabs aren't VB
classic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-06, 01:57 AM   #15
Wilchemy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bikes: Wilier, Alchemy, Merida MTB,
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Fair enough. VB is not really much incentive... Let's make it Boags Premium then.
Wilchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:03 AM.