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Old 07-23-06, 09:45 AM   #1
donrhummy
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What do you (and Sastre) think of Zavriskie not "Warning" of Floyd's plan?

In an interview on bicycling mag online, Floyd said he told Zabriskie of his plan to attack on that first climb really fast/hard before stage 17. Now Zabriskie is Floyd's best friend, so it's sort of a weird situation -- do you betray your friend by telling your team leader or betray your team/employer by not warning them and giving them a chance to plan for it. (I'm not saying they would have done any diff. but perhaps they would have rode all over the road, blocking Floyd until after that first climb?) Judging by Sastre (and everyone else on CSC)'s reaction afterward, Zabriskie did NOT tell him of Floyd's plan.

Now that it's out that Zabriskie DID know, what do you think will happen? Will there be a fallout? Should he have told CSC? I mean they PAY him to help them win. That's his JOB. And this is a sporting event where you're supposed to help your leader win. On the other hand, it's his best friend (and Floyd said after his collapse the day before, Zabriskie was more depressed than Floyd ws about it). Still...
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Old 07-23-06, 09:53 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donrhummy
In an interview on bicycling mag online, Floyd said he told Zabriskie of his plan to attack on that first climb really fast/hard before stage 17. Now Zabriskie is Floyd's best friend, so it's sort of a weird situation -- do you betray your friend by telling your team leader or betray your team/employer by not warning them and giving them a chance to plan for it. (I'm not saying they would have done any diff. but perhaps they would have rode all over the road, blocking Floyd until after that first climb?) Judging by Sastre (and everyone else on CSC)'s reaction afterward, Zabriskie did NOT tell him of Floyd's plan.

Now that it's out that Zabriskie DID know, what do you think will happen? Will there be a fallout? Should he have told CSC? I mean they PAY him to help them win. That's his JOB. And this is a sporting event where you're supposed to help your leader win. On the other hand, it's his best friend (and Floyd said after his collapse the day before, Zabriskie was more depressed than Floyd ws about it). Still...
well, CSC saw landis attack and didn't respond. what to you think about landis setting up his buddy oscar pereiro for a podium position?

all i know there is a lot of touchy feely love jumping off between these men .

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Old 07-23-06, 11:05 AM   #3
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Go back and read the interviews, more than Dave Z. was told what they were going to try. It wasn't that big or well kept secret. When Phonak came to the front with a torrid pace, it was a no-brainer as to what was going to happen. It's just that no one thought he could pull it off for that long and they didn't realize what kind of legs he actually had on that day. Besides if it was that important to keep it a secret, you don't tell even if he is your friend considering Sastre's there in front.
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Old 07-23-06, 11:10 AM   #4
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Don't see where it really matters either. As Robow pointed out Phonak didn't make it a real big surprise.

When Floyd went people either couldn't or wouldn't work to catch him until it was panic time. By then Floyd was too far ahead and having too good of a day to pull back much time.


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Old 07-23-06, 01:16 PM   #5
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"Go drink some Coke, because we're leaving on the first climb if you want to come along".

Best. Quote. Ever.
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Old 07-23-06, 02:28 PM   #6
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I dont think Zabriskie or any other rider should be at fault if their friends tell them what they are going to do. CSC could fire Zabriskie for it, but I dont think it would hurt him financially, he'd get picked up in a heartbeat. This stuff happens all time in sports, especially with brothers playing against each other and its only in poor taste if one exposes the plan.
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Old 07-23-06, 02:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by robow
Go back and read the interviews, more than Dave Z. was told what they were going to try. It wasn't that big or well kept secret. ...
+1

It appears that there is more than one version of the story that is floating around. In version one (the first one I read), it was not explicit about the identity of the person(s) to whom Landis made the remark. Also in version one, it was stated that the word of the imminent attack had spread around the peloton and there was much grumbling about it. (Can't find the reference to this version unfortunately). Version two is the Bicycling.com version where Zabriskie hears the story... nowhere in the Bicycling.com story does it imply that Zabriskie thought this was a secret attack, nor even that he didn't tell others about it. Finally, what could the other teams could have done about it, even if they suspected before the start of the stage that Landis would attack when he did?
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Old 07-23-06, 03:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter
Don't see where it really matters either. As Robow pointed out Phonak didn't make it a real big surprise.

When Floyd went people either couldn't or wouldn't work to catch him until it was panic time. By then Floyd was too far ahead and having too good of a day to pull back much time.


There was a comment this morning that Axel Merckx called his dad the night before and told him of the plan. Eddie then went out to the betting shop and put 100$ on Floyd to win - and got 75-1 odds. Phil commented that Eddie would be buying the champagne at the end.
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Old 07-24-06, 08:14 AM   #9
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It is normal not to chase down your friends even if you are on a different team. Those guys are roommates, I don't think anybody could expect him to chase. Certainly if Sastre had been in yellow at the time he would have, but CSC wasn't really in contention for the win. He may have done some pulling in the valley before the last climb, but all I saw on the TV was Jens Voight from CSC, and maybe Vandevelde.

It depends on your level of rivalry/friendship with the person. I mean sometimes you are friends with your rivals and you want to beat them so it isn't if you are going to let them go just cause you have afinity for them.

With the Z man and FL, I can't really see them working against one another, unless it was a very, very clear head to head situation.
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Old 07-24-06, 11:02 AM   #10
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Articles I have read indicated that several in the peloton were aware of Floyd's plan, and pleaded with him not to do it knowing what a hard, horrible day it would be. Reading Stuart O'Grady's diary, and other interviews, the clear consensus is that, simply put, no one was able to keep up with Floyd. Stuart said the early break was doing 60 Km/hr, Floyd rode up to them alone, then simply rode them off his wheel. He and several others (e.g., Michael Rogers) were flabbergasted at Floyd's speed, one report having him doing 20-21 MPH up a 10% grade.

Best not to piss off a Mennonite, is my takeaway.
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Old 07-24-06, 12:40 PM   #11
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The only thing harsher than attacking when your opponents least expect it, is attacking when your opponents most expect it.

Tha was nicely done.
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Old 07-24-06, 12:45 PM   #12
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If, after what happened the previous stage, anyone believed that Landis was going to sit back and try to ride in quietly, well they are stupid.
If they were paying attention, they knew he'd try to go. As he said afteward, if he lost by 10 minutes or an hour, it did not matter. He had to take his shot.

BTW...he has a history of stating his intentions to everyone within earshot. This is not new "floydbehavior"...
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Old 07-24-06, 03:49 PM   #13
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Whatever the plan was, they were there to see it when he took off. It's clear that everyone was way too tired to chase him. He simply wanted it far worse than they wanted to take it from him. There's no conspiracy.

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Old 07-24-06, 04:20 PM   #14
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Stuart said the early break was doing 60 Km/hr, Floyd rode up to them alone, then simply rode them off his wheel.
LOL. At which point in the course was this? You do realise you are talking about 40 mph?
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Old 07-24-06, 06:26 PM   #15
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The only thing harsher than attacking when your opponents least expect it, is attacking when your opponents most expect it.

Tha was nicely done.
Nice!
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Old 07-24-06, 08:30 PM   #16
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LOL. At which point in the course was this? You do realise you are talking about 40 mph?

Check out his diary entry, 4th paragraph, last line...he clearly writes they were doing nearly 60 km/hr. He said it, not me.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/20.../?id=stuey0618
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Old 07-25-06, 10:17 AM   #17
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What are the odds that Zabriskie signs with Ishares for 2007?
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Old 07-25-06, 10:53 AM   #18
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With radios there are no secret attacks. The team directors all can see what is going on and forward that information along, which makes the feat all that more impressive.
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Old 07-25-06, 08:40 PM   #19
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read somewhere that non phonak riders who had heard of his plans were talking directly to Landis telling him not to do it......not that it stopped him of course..
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