Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

View Poll Results: Do you think Floyd Landis Doped?
Yes, I belive he took a banned substence or otherwise cheated 93 26.96%
No, the test is a false positive or his high level of testosterone was naturally occuring 252 73.04%
Voters: 345. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-27-06, 02:30 PM   #1
AtlAllez
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atl,Ga
Bikes: Specalized Allez Elite and Vintage Vitus
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Poll: Do you think Floyd Landis Doped?

I know that this issue isn't as black and white as a yes or a no but, I wanted to get the general consensus.
AtlAllez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:52 PM   #2
user0ne
Senior Member
 
user0ne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: specialized roubaix comp dbl Gerolsteiner
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
no, I dont think he did. he knew he was going all out that day, as did everyone else, so to take something like testosterone for the one stage to get 1st and be tested, only to fail...
I just cant see it.


I think he says it better:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
WADA formerly had a standard for the T/E ratio for testosterone testing of 6:1. The average guy, on an average day, has a T/E ratio of around 1:1. But, among 1,000 guys, a few might have a T/E ratio of 4:1 and a rare guy might have a ratio of 5:1 or 6:1.

In 2005, WADA decided to lower the T/E standard from 6:1 to just 4:1, based on research showing that only a small percentage of men would violate the 4:1 ratio without some sort of artificial help.

Under the WADA standard, if the "A" sample exceeds the 4:1 ratio, then the "B" sample is tested. If the "B" sample also exceeds 4:1, the rider is asked to show the reason why. That reason could include that the rider's ratio was elevated by approved medication, or that the rider's own natural ratio sometime exceeds 4:1. If the rider does not provide an explanation for a ratio over 4:1, then he is deemed to have failed the test, and he is subject to discipline, and the results of the tests are made public.

In this case, the results of the Landis test was provided to the Times of London by someone "close" to the lab before the results were given to Landis and Landis allowed to respond. This is the same lab castigated recently for illegally giving confidential information about Lance Armstrong to the French press. When the lab got caught in the Armstrong case, they suspended an employee, and claimed the lab would clean up its act. Well, it looks like the lab needs a bigger broom.

Conspiracy? The Houston police lab was recently found to have been botching DNA tests that resulted in innocent men going to prison. It was just incompetence. But, amazingly, when the lab made an error, the error usually resulted in a "positive" for the exact same guy that the police had designated as the prime suspect. Given that there are over a million men in Houston, what were the odds of THAT happening? Naw...conspiracy theories are just silly...
user0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:59 PM   #3
rufvelo
Senior Member
 
rufvelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The polulation doesn't have all the data yet. Wait for B sample to confirm or further muddle the issue, else as things stand, everyone has to agree that he has doped!
__________________
rufvelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:03 PM   #4
cycle17
Warrior Cyclist
 
cycle17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Bikes: 07 Madone SL, 06 Madone 5.5 & 04 5500
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not so black & white as a yes or no, but my short answer would be No...I don't think he cheated.

Is it possible, yes. But My ex wife worked in a very respected University Lab and they had tests have false positives, samples get compromised etc... several times a year despite stringent rules and safeguards that were "supposed" to be followed. So while it's possible he is guilty, I'm more inclined to say he's not and give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
__________________
Just Do It..
cycle17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:12 PM   #5
linux_author
370H-SSV-0773H
 
linux_author's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Penniless Park, Fla.
Bikes: Merlin Fortius, Specialized Crossroads & Rockhopper, Serotta Fierte, Pedal Force RS2
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
- hmm... to me, it just doesn't make sense that a rider would dope knowing that testing would be inevitable...

- unless the $600K winnings and $2.5M bonus were incentive?

- still, this just doesn't seem like Landis from everything i've read about the guy...
linux_author is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 04:01 PM   #6
rufvelo
Senior Member
 
rufvelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One has to be in a top athlete's specific situation, to decide what you would or would not do. Speculation, applying your current moral standard from your desk at work, or laptop at your favorite coffee shop does not work quite well. i.e. You need to be a politician in dire financial need, or not, to understand why a bribe may be acceptable, or not.
__________________
rufvelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 04:52 PM   #7
skinnyone
Dude wheres my guads?
 
skinnyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Guess
Bikes: Not enough
Posts: 2,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No.. But in any event it stinketh...
skinnyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 04:58 PM   #8
HDTVKSS
randomness inc.
 
HDTVKSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
if the case is that he has such a high testosterone level naturally, then wouldnt he have tested positive throught the year? or at least been red flagged?

they may all cheat but this guy was stupid or greedy enough to get caught.
HDTVKSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 05:07 PM   #9
LilSprocket
Wheee
 
LilSprocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S. FL
Bikes: Schwinn Rocket 88 phase 1/ Surly 1x1/Cannondale R700 WSD 650c
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I really really hope the B sample is negative because if not, this is really really bad for the sport and will give unjustified cause for the cagers to dislike cyclists, the sport, Americans, green, yellow and anything else you can think of...

I'm not a competitive athlete, so I guess I just don't understand why anyone would train SO hard for SO long to risk getting caught cheating...Especially with all this heat around (and I'm not talking the weather here) Personally, I appreciate my own efforts making due with the talents I've been blessed with and enhanced only through hard work

Please B sample, restore my Faith
__________________
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
http://www.myspace.com/qwtrailbuilders
rip sydney
LilSprocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 05:22 PM   #10
blue_neon
Elite Rep
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne - Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 2,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think he cheated. That would explain his 'miraculas comeback'.

LilSprocket - It wont cause anyone to dislike the sport or the cyclists, but it will cause the world to dislike Landis and in some circumstances, more dislike Americans .
blue_neon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 09:19 PM   #11
Demit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No, it wouldnt explain his "miraculas comeback", testosterone isnt normaly considered to be able to helped in the short term like that .

If he did take testosterone it only raises more questions.

Im holding off until the b test and how far off he was from the 4 to 1. Im was really suprised to hear the ratio had to be so low, many people have 4 to 1 naturally, its probaly more common than his hip problem.
Demit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 09:41 PM   #12
CarlJStoneham
TX Ciclista
 
CarlJStoneham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: '05 Trek 1500 & '00 Trek 2000
Posts: 1,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The quote after his miraculous recovery (something like "I have no idea what happened") seems oddly suspicious now...

I just hope he doesn't pull a Tyler.

Interesting thought: How would this poll turn out if it was Lance's name...? Whose performance seems more likely drug-related: Lance's steady domination or Floyd's miraculous comeback? Just food for thought
__________________
CarlJStoneham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 09:42 PM   #13
gabdy
Senior Member
 
gabdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes: Trek, Giant, PoS
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not sure if he doped or not, but as stated I do think it could explain his comeback. Lets hope not.
Whilst test isn't the best performance enhancing substance for endurance athletes, it does help the muscles recover much faster than normal. Some water based testosterone's do leave the body in a few hours so maybe he got the timing wrong.
gabdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 10:15 PM   #14
cam117
Senior Member
 
cam117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Bikes: Trek 1200
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The B Sample thing is a Red Herring. There has been so much made of it that if it does come back positive, then everyone is going to act like that is conclusive proof that he's a doper. If the guy just has high testosterone levels then we should expect that the second sample will test high as the first. I've read some mention of a follow-up endocrinological test. That seems like the data point that folks should wait for before making any pronouncements of guild or innocence.
cam117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 12:00 AM   #15
grinderbob
coffee bean grinder
 
grinderbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Come on, every one knows the winner of every stage will be tested. If he did cheat, he and his doctor were too careless and dumb. wouldn't you agree? so I don't think he cheated.
grinderbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 01:40 AM   #16
Starclimber
Blue Straggler
 
Starclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delta
Bikes: Miele Pisasheeta, Airborne Thunderbolt
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I want the answer to be no, so that's how I voted. I was surprised to hear that his 'single beer' after the stage turned into 'whiskey in the bathroom' later, though. What next...sasparilla bottle? He just seems so much smarter than Ben Johnson...
__________________
Coach Bill
Starclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 02:29 AM   #17
Daily Commute
Ride the Road
 
Daily Commute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Posts: 4,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll wait for the second test to decide.
Daily Commute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 02:46 AM   #18
Hitchy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Oz
Bikes: how long have you got?
Posts: 2,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've long ago given up believing in miracles....but man, that stage 17 ride, i wanted to believe, really I did......not cos I'm a Floyd fan ,(I'm definately not), but for cycling, I really, really wanted to believe that this ride was possible, to believe that anything is possible if you want it bad enough,but I didn't cos of all that has been before....I knew then. Floyd is a cheat...the 'B' sample will show the same results....then do we have to go thru the 'Tyler' scenario again?......maybe Floyd has a missing twin too.....
Hitchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 05:19 AM   #19
domestique
Shut Up and Ride
 
domestique's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PA (Worst roads in existence)
Bikes: 05 Cannondale Six 13 (Record 2008 with DT rr 1.1 rims, WI H2 Hubs and CX-ray spokes), OLMO Antares (Micx of 06 Record and Chorus), 1988 Tunturri, 1980's Fuji, 1970's Crescent (Sweeden)
Posts: 1,969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hope he is cleared.... but the damage to his family and career is already done.

Stupide French media.... oh wait.... leaking of information? New York times does the same thing. My bad
domestique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 07:05 AM   #20
kubrickian
All Work And No Play...
 
kubrickian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Korova Milkbar
Bikes:
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think he cheated; I want so much to believe he did not cheat. To reiterate a statement already made, he and his people would know the winner of the stage and wearer of the yellow jersey would be tested so it seems idiotic to utilize a substance which would be detected in post-race testing.

Floyd had me yelling and jumping up and down during his breakaway the day after his collapse...

I will wait for further testing to pass judgment.


Why is his web site offline? He has a forum - which he can control - to shoot back at the allegations and he is not taking advantage of it...
kubrickian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 07:14 AM   #21
Crack'n'fail
Photog Extraordinaire
 
Crack'n'fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Bikes: Santa Cruz Chameleon, Cannondale R800 (CAAD4) with Dura-Ace upgrade
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kubrickian


Why is his web site offline? He has a forum - which he can control - to shoot back at the allegations and he is not taking advantage of it...
It was being overwhelmed with hits, it was hit or miss if you could get onto it so they probably shut it down to avoid overwhelming the servers of whoever hosts his site.

Also, anyone and their brother could post comments on that site, it was probably getting flooded. You're only aloud so much bandwidth per month and then you have to pay extra, I imagine he was getting his months worth every hour.
Crack'n'fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 07:32 AM   #22
wrench_meister
Senior Member
 
wrench_meister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Bikes: The only one I'll ever need...
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack'n'fail
It was being overwhelmed with hits, it was hit or miss if you could get onto it so they probably shut it down to avoid overwhelming the servers of whoever hosts his site.

Also, anyone and their brother could post comments on that site, it was probably getting flooded. You're only aloud so much bandwidth per month and then you have to pay extra, I imagine he was getting his months worth every hour.

Makes sense...

just want to see Floyd shaking his fist at everyone attesting his innocence...
wrench_meister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 08:11 AM   #23
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,159
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Another Poll option: Do you think Landis, and cycling in general are gretting screwed by the public announcement before the B test results?
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 08:47 AM   #24
DogBoy
No one carries the DogBoy
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, I belive its likely that he took a banned substence or otherwise cheated & I believe this test is a false positive or his high ratio of T/E was naturally occuring. {his testosterone level was low, so calling it a high level of testosterone is not correct**
DogBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-06, 08:48 AM   #25
DogBoy
No one carries the DogBoy
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 2,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Another Poll option: Do you think Landis, and cycling in general are gretting screwed by the public announcement before the B test results?
yes
DogBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 AM.