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Old 07-27-06, 07:49 PM   #1
jjmolyet
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My feelings on Pro Cycling, I'm ANGRY

Maybe I am naive, but I think cycling's governing body is destroying this sport. I don't believe Floyd cheated, I also don't think Basso or Jan cheated, and I don't believe Lance cheated after getting cancer, I was not a fan before his first win so I can not comment on that. Vino had his tour destroyed for no reason, the Astana 5 have been cleared AFTER the tour, how convenient!

I believe they have inconclusive testing, this is unacceptable in a sport where you are Guilty until proven innocent. It was life interrupting, spending 4 hours a day for 20 days, my wife and I spent lots of time watching a sport we love, just to be told it was invalid. Guess who won't be watching next year, what for? Every year the winner is accused of cheating with questionable testing, we are crushed after cheering the superhuman abilities of riders only to have those images tainted by unreliable BS testing!!!! T

Does anyone else feel like the A/B sample method is stupid? If A is positive, test B, if B is negative, inconclusive. It sounds like the test is unreliable to me.

Am I alone, do you who may even have pro cycling experience, or amatuer roadies, Freds, or TDF fans think I am crazy?
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Old 07-27-06, 07:58 PM   #2
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Not crazy, just naive.
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Old 07-27-06, 08:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmolyet
Does anyone else feel like the A/B sample method is stupid? If A is positive, test B, if B is negative, inconclusive. It sounds like the test is unreliable to me.

Am I alone, do you who may even have pro cycling experience, or amatuer roadies, Freds, or TDF fans think I am crazy?
Whats funny about dope testing is how very similar it is to US military drug testing......Its very thorough in a way. It has safeguards and checks and balances to keep everything from getting screwed up or tainted.
HOWEVER, doping is nothing like doing coke or weed. Doping, (especially in the Landis case) involves chemicals or cells or hemocrits or what have you normally found in the human body. Coke is not normally found in the human body, therefore if your A and B samples are positive....you were doing lines, no question about it. The Testosterone level can vary, as can your ratio.......the human body is not an exact machine. Especially not at the near superhuman level of pro athletes(like floyd). If his VO2 is so much higher then normal peoples its just proof that you cannot force all humans to be expected to constantly have equal body functions. Its just stupid.

Personally I think dope testing and scandals and calling people out it much worse then if people were to dope and we bever heard about it. Its much worse for our sport and crushes the dreams and heroes that these people become. Except for Barry Bonds....he just took it too far
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Old 07-27-06, 08:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmolyet
Guess who won't be watching next year, what for?
TV ratings in Europe and the USA have apparently been down a lot compared to last year (a so called 'boring' Tour according to the anti-Lance crowd).

ZDF... Germany's broadcaster of the Tour, may not even show it next season. After all this doping news.

"We have signed a television contract for a sports event and not for a display of the performance of pharmaceuticals" - ZDF editor-in-chief, Nikolaus Brender
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Old 07-27-06, 08:23 PM   #5
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this is a sport not a court of law. why does their need to be such a high burden of proof?
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Old 07-27-06, 09:37 PM   #6
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I agree that it's gettig out of hand. Whether that's the fault of the organizers or the athletes is a legitimate question. Sure, many pro cyclists dope. On the other hand, the organizers and media do seem to pursue the topic with sometimes careless zeal. It IS getting discouraging. Thankfully, I don't have to submit A and B samples to go ride MY bike, so at least I have that much
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Old 07-27-06, 10:16 PM   #7
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It's like the European McCarthy era, circa 1950s. This is insane.

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Old 07-28-06, 08:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffee brown
It's like the European McCarthy era, circa 1950s. This is insane.

Koffee
Exactly... the peloton is just like congress. Nobody is doping, just like nobody was a commie.
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Old 07-28-06, 08:54 AM   #9
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It is worth pointing out that McCarthy caught....



drum roll please....




zero commies. Nadie, zilch, noone, you get the idea. (Nixon at least got the one he went after)

Hopefully UCI, WADA, etc will have a better track record when they're looked at 50 years later.

Even though it's sports not criminal justice guilt until proven innocence grates me.


(unless you're going to win a TdF stage the next day.)
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Old 07-28-06, 09:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmolyet
Maybe I am naive, but I think cycling's governing body is destroying this sport.
And just what would the motivation be for the UCI to want to falsely accuse people of doping? Perhaps it is the dopers that are destroying the sport?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmolyet
Does anyone else feel like the A/B sample method is stupid? If A is positive, test B, if B is negative, inconclusive. It sounds like the test is unreliable to me.
Vast majority of positive drug tests are confirmed by the B sample. Its a procedure where a second test by a second lab, rules out the issue of lab error. The A/B sample process increases the reliability of the test. The only argument that it's stupid is that in the vast majority of cases its unecessary, but it does give the athlete (or the employee) an added level of protection, and provides an added level of confidence to the results.

And yes you are naive.
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Old 07-28-06, 01:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmolyet
Maybe I am naive, but I think cycling's governing body is destroying this sport. I don't believe Floyd cheated, I also don't think Basso or Jan cheated, and I don't believe Lance cheated after getting cancer, I was not a fan before his first win so I can not comment on that. Vino had his tour destroyed for no reason, the Astana 5 have been cleared AFTER the tour, how convenient!

I believe they have inconclusive testing, this is unacceptable in a sport where you are Guilty until proven innocent. It was life interrupting, spending 4 hours a day for 20 days, my wife and I spent lots of time watching a sport we love, just to be told it was invalid. Guess who won't be watching next year, what for? Every year the winner is accused of cheating with questionable testing, we are crushed after cheering the superhuman abilities of riders only to have those images tainted by unreliable BS testing!!!! T

Does anyone else feel like the A/B sample method is stupid? If A is positive, test B, if B is negative, inconclusive. It sounds like the test is unreliable to me.

Am I alone, do you who may even have pro cycling experience, or amatuer roadies, Freds, or TDF fans think I am crazy?

do you think tyler hamilton cheated?

there were some people who believed that richard virenque didn't cheat but he finally admitted it.

marco pantani went to his death (cocaine overdose) swearing he didn't cheat.

alex zuelle and david millar admitted cheating pretty early on.

miguel indurain had a slight problem with a banned substance and so did lance armstrong but both were cleared without much fanfare.

ed rader
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Old 07-28-06, 04:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by erader
do you think tyler hamilton cheated?

there were some people who believed that richard virenque didn't cheat but he finally admitted it.

marco pantani went to his death (cocaine overdose) swearing he didn't cheat.

alex zuelle and david millar admitted cheating pretty early on.

miguel indurain had a slight problem with a banned substance and so did lance armstrong but both were cleared without much fanfare.

ed rader
If they confessed to cheating, I will accept that.

If a test indicates a positive, I will also accept that - so as much as I liked the guy, Floyd is currently guilty in my book, until B sample or natural causes prove otherwise. I would like for him to come out and flatly deny it too, not some 'Er, well, maybe not' type stuff.

If there is a proven link to Fuentes, and unless Ulrich and Basso were able to, in a simple conversation with management, prove that they were not linked, (i.e. not seen hanging around his office, no products/blood clearly intended for them), I will believe they are guilty. There are no pics of me with Fuentes. Simple statement to Riis for example would have been, I don't know the good doc, or I know him, but I have never taken anything from him, never, or in the last 5 yrs, never anything currently on the list of banned substances!'

I'm also aware of the practise of accepting a plea deal, as in everyday tight legal situations too, if the evidence is overwhelming, and that maybe, maybe, Hamilton, Millar, Pantani, Virenque did not dope - it was just easier to deal with the 2 year ban for career's sake.

I don't believe all pros dope, just about 10% of the Euro pro circuit.

I will not believe than Lance Armstrong cheated.

I will not believe that Greg Lemond cheated.
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Old 07-28-06, 05:21 PM   #13
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I think Armstrong cheated in 99, but I think he was clean afterward. I just dont see all those tests he did coming up clean everytime if he was doping. In Lance's defense I think EPO was pretty rampant in the peloton that year. I also think Hamilton and Pantani doped as well.

I dont know much about the Basso / Ullrich case but I do think its fishy Bjarne Riis' last 2 GC contenders have problems, yet the guy gets a free pass.

I dont think Floyd cheated, I think the B sample will be confirmed, but there is just too much 'swiss cheese' in the UCI's case.
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Old 07-28-06, 05:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufvelo
If they confessed to cheating, I will accept that.

If a test indicates a positive, I will also accept that - so as much as I liked the guy, Floyd is currently guilty in my book, until B sample or natural causes prove otherwise. I would like for him to come out and flatly deny it too, not some 'Er, well, maybe not' type stuff.

If there is a proven link to Fuentes, and unless Ulrich and Basso were able to, in a simple conversation with management, prove that they were not linked, (i.e. not seen hanging around his office, no products/blood clearly intended for them), I will believe they are guilty. There are no pics of me with Fuentes. Simple statement to Riis for example would have been, I don't know the good doc, or I know him, but I have never taken anything from him, never, or in the last 5 yrs, never anything currently on the list of banned substances!'

I'm also aware of the practise of accepting a plea deal, as in everyday tight legal situations too, if the evidence is overwhelming, and that maybe, maybe, Hamilton, Millar, Pantani, Virenque did not dope - it was just easier to deal with the 2 year ban for career's sake.

I don't believe all pros dope, just about 10% of the Euro pro circuit.

I will not believe than Lance Armstrong cheated.

I will not believe that Greg Lemond cheated.

maybe the 10 percent that win the big races but i think the number is much higher.

i'm not saying all these guys are full on doping but i think most take something....maybe something just as simple as a testosterone patch.

maybe lance's motorola and discovery teams were proof that clean riders really do ride better? if so i wonder why hamilton and heras were busted when they rode for other teams.

yep, i'm skeptical. been burned waaay too many times to think any other way.

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