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Old 07-31-06, 07:07 AM   #26
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I'm not a Lance fan but CosmicRocker is correct. He's probably the most tested athlete in history and NEVER failed a test (Except when he was using an APPROVED topical corticosteroid for saddle sores)
Lance did it all naturally, even with one nut. Gotta' give him his due.



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Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.

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Old 07-31-06, 08:41 AM   #27
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Dude. Get real. Lance DID test positive. On more than one occasion. He got off on a technicality. Dude has more ex-teamates that says he's used EPO than anybody. Don't you know he's consulted with Dr Ferrari (the dope doc) for all those years? He's got some asteriks next to all those Tour wins in alot of people's eye.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:07 AM   #28
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I'm not a Lance fan but CosmicRocker is correct. He's probably the most tested athlete in history and NEVER failed a test
Neither did Basso, Ullrich or all the other guys who got caught eventually. Except Lance did test positive.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:23 AM   #29
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He was on NPR last friday.

Landis said, during this interview, that he expects the B sample also to be positive at which point he will be subjected to some endrocrinolgical tests (and the samples will be tested again with a more definitive Carbon isotope test).

He sounded kind of nervous....
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Old 07-31-06, 10:00 AM   #30
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There are saying we'll know today whether or not Landis is stripped of his Tour victory.

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Old 07-31-06, 10:03 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Dude. Get real. Lance DID test positive. On more than one occasion. He got off on a technicality. Dude has more ex-teamates that says he's used EPO than anybody. Don't you know he's consulted with Dr Ferrari (the dope doc) for all those years? He's got some asteriks next to all those Tour wins in alot of people's eye.

Interesting.
Please respond with the exact dates, test results, etc.
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Armstrong never got caught cheating.
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Old 07-31-06, 10:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by EURO
Neither did Basso, Ullrich or all the other guys who got caught eventually. Except Lance did test positive.
Basso and Ulrich have not been "caught", or tested positive. They're victims of the EuroPeon Napoleonic JustUs system in the UCI and Pro Cycling.
If any of them test positive or are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, they should fry.
But that hasn't happened to those in question.

Personally, I'm disgusted that Hamilton gets back into the game soon.
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Armstrong never got caught cheating.
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Old 07-31-06, 08:24 PM   #33
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Personally, I'm disgusted that Hamilton gets back into the game soon.
That remains to be seen. Operation Puerto has turned up some stuff and even if he does get back in this year it will only be for a week or two. And I haven't heard that he has put ink to a contract.

I believed Tyler too, just like I believe Floyd now. But after he lost at CAS I was convinced that he was full of it. If he wants to try to come back to pro cycling at age 36 and he can do it clean then more power to him.
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Old 07-31-06, 08:49 PM   #34
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That remains to be seen. Operation Puerto has turned up some stuff and even if he does get back in this year it will only be for a week or two. And I haven't heard that he has put ink to a contract.

I believed Tyler too, just like I believe Floyd now. But after he lost at CAS I was convinced that he was full of it. If he wants to try to come back to pro cycling at age 36 and he can do it clean then more power to him.
Read somewhere that the UCI might not allow him to come back on a ProTour team... because his conviction was after the new guidelines that allow the ProTour ban to extend an additional 2 yrs. But haven't seen this confirmed anywhere.
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Old 08-07-06, 12:34 AM   #35
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Armstrong just commented on the 2nd positive test on TV. Said it was a real shame and a big blow to cyling. Said he still supports the sport and then took another jab at Greg Lemond. Nothing new with the Mr 7 time prick it appears.
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Old 08-07-06, 08:38 AM   #36
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There are two possibilities.
Floyd took testosterone.
Someone slipped him testosterone.
The test is wrong.

Whoops, thats three possibilities.
The odds of both the ratio test and the isotope test being wrong are miniscule.
Less than 2-3/1000.

So either FLoyd took it or someone gave it to him.
In the meantime it doesnt matter.
Recall Scott Moniger proved he took a supplement that had the contaminant in it that made him turn positive and he still had a big suspension--and the USADA had all the data and believed Scott. He actually proved the vitamins or whatever had contaminants in them and he was suspended, so its game over for Floyd.
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Old 08-07-06, 08:56 AM   #37
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If the UCI starts stripping titles of riders when there is credible evidence that the testing process is flawed, the UCI will lose fans. They need to keep a fan base or they will go away. The fans are where the money is that keeps the sport alive. How many of those people you see lining the mountain stages are there cheering the UCI vs. how many are there to see the riders and cheer them on? It's a sport, and #1, it is entertainment.
Piss the fans off and cycling will find a new governing body, or split into different "leagues". That probably wouldn't be a bad thing.
Off-topic, but anyway:

The UCI has 2 choices: let everyone go and do their thing, and accept a few deaths every year for mis-use of doping, or join the bandwagon and try and control doping. They took the latter option, predictably and reasonably. Every fan whose hero gets caught will believe the testing is flawed, and will be pissed off. Major League Baseball (and National Hockey League) took the first option, and everyone is happy, trying hard to ignore how many of the players are doped, how much, and what may happen to them as a result. Neither is a bad choice, as long as you accept the consequences and are consequent with the choices made. I think Americans are more familiar with the first option, since it is in place in all major pro sports, and thus tend to over-react on the consequences of the second option.
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Old 08-07-06, 09:17 AM   #38
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Recall Scott Moniger proved he took a supplement that had the contaminant in it that made him turn positive and he still had a big suspension--and the USADA had all the data and believed Scott. He actually proved the vitamins or whatever had contaminants in them and he was suspended, so its game over for Floyd.
No - he got a slap on the wrist - 6 months. Still painful, especially since he is older, but 6 months is a big difference than 2 years.
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Old 08-07-06, 09:28 AM   #39
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If he wants to try to come back to pro cycling at age 36 and he can do it clean then more power to him.
Why should he have to do it clean when nobody else is doing it clean?
Just because he was unlucky enough to use a method that they were able to catch?
How is that fair play?
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Old 08-07-06, 09:31 AM   #40
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Armstrong just commented on the 2nd positive test on TV. Said it was a real shame and a big blow to cyling. Said he still supports the sport and then took another jab at Greg Lemond. Nothing new with the Mr 7 time prick it appears.
A big blow to cycling. What is? That Floyd used steroids? Or that he overdid it, or underdid the masking, and got caught?

Lance still supports the sport - despite the pervasive doping - and then took another jab at LeMond. For what? Because LeMond wants the sport cleaned up - like that's not supporting the sport.

I'm starting to respect LeMond and his position more and more.
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Old 08-07-06, 09:57 AM   #41
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I think Americans are more familiar with the first option, since it is in place in all major pro sports, and thus tend to over-react on the consequences of the second option.
This comes to mind almost every pro football game I watch. You see some dude out there with a broken hand or shoulder separation and the announcers raving about how he "plays with pain". Yea right.
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Old 08-07-06, 11:35 AM   #42
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Why should he have to do it clean when nobody else is doing it clean?
Just because he was unlucky enough to use a method that they were able to catch?
How is that fair play?
I don't accept the notion that everyone is cheating. If you want to, that is fine. You certainly have a right to your opinion and you may well be correct.

I resent Tyler Hamilton for all his vanishing twin nonsense and the fact that he still insists he didn't cheat, despite sufficient evidence to the contrary.

Just because some people cheat it doesn't make it right if he does too, that isn't fair either. I'm not out there cheating and that is all I know for sure.
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Old 08-07-06, 01:10 PM   #43
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Armstrong, Basso and Ullrich are all on equal footing. All three have been connected to doping doctors. If two are found to be guilty, and the third consistently beat the other two, then either doping is not much of an advantage, or the third was doping. The tunnelvision by Americans regarding Armstrong is shocking to me.
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Old 08-08-06, 06:40 AM   #44
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Armstrong, Basso and Ullrich are all on equal footing. All three have been connected to doping doctors. If two are found to be guilty, and the third consistently beat the other two, then either doping is not much of an advantage, or the third was doping. The tunnelvision by Americans regarding Armstrong is shocking to me.


Barry is connected to a dope doctor and he is guilty. So is Lance Armstrong. He is connected to a dope doctor. GUILTY!
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Old 08-08-06, 07:31 AM   #45
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Barry is connected to a dope doctor and he is guilty. So is Lance Armstrong. He is connected to a dope doctor. GUILTY!
You start meeting with a dr who specialized in doping in an abandoned parking lot then lie AND have failed multiple tests? Yes you are guilty in the eyes of any reasonable person. Shouldn;t strip his victories like Landis but he's guilty none the less.
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Old 08-09-06, 08:24 AM   #46
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You start meeting with a dr who specialized in doping in an abandoned parking lot then lie AND have failed multiple tests? Yes you are guilty in the eyes of any reasonable person. Shouldn;t strip his victories like Landis but he's guilty none the less.

They didn't strip Armstrong of those 7 victories, but he's certainly not a REAL champion in many people's eye.
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Old 08-09-06, 10:03 AM   #47
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... The tunnelvision by Americans regarding Armstrong is shocking to me.
I'm not sure that this happens. Most Americans I know that care about the sport at all think he doped. They just don't care. He dominated the TDF. Given the feeling that most/all the athletes dope, it was a fair race and he dominated it. Why should he be ashamed?
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Old 08-09-06, 01:10 PM   #48
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Wow, i thought Monigers suspension was longer so thanks for the correction, but yes it took a year out of his racing.
There is no way in hell FLoyd is getting off unless he has a video of Frenchy Doctors pissing in his tube.
It doesnt matter in terms of the suspension whether FLoyd knows or not how it got there.
Its there and the synthetic testosterone is an open and shut test.
The T/E ratio is interpretive and some of the evidence surrounding FLoyd's test is odd and the release of the info to the press is bad but the science behind this test is a lock. Very different from Tyler's test and I am NOT opening that one up for discussion so lets no "go there."
But the science of the isotope test is very cut and dried...and I am a FLoyd supporter!
There's just no daylight here at all folks, game over.
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Old 08-09-06, 07:03 PM   #49
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Did Lance really fail tests? Anyone have any links to information regarding this?
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Old 08-09-06, 07:49 PM   #50
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Start with the Lance Armstrong page at Wikipedia.org.
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