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Old 07-27-06, 10:33 PM   #1
jackaninny
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why does 75% of this board want landis to be guilty?

seriously i cannot believe how many people are ready to feed landis to the lions. we are just starting to get the details of the test results (still only rumors though), the second sample has not been tested, landis has had ZERO chance to mount a defense. it seems to me that there are many more explanations that could explain why he might NOT be guilty than what the results of a single test have indicated.

still the overwhelming, kuckledragging, f-him he's done in my book posts just amaze me.
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Old 07-27-06, 10:35 PM   #2
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ummm... if you read the poll, i think it's 75% who think he's innocent...
Poll: Do you think Floyd Landis Doped?
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Old 07-28-06, 03:33 AM   #3
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I dreaded this happening, not for Floyd, but for cycling...but he's guilty.....I don't want him to be, but he is
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Old 07-28-06, 04:43 AM   #4
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to answer you're extremely broad question, Ill give you an extremely broad answer,
Because the other 25% think he is completely innocent. If someone thinks he is innocent someone else will think he is guilty.
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Old 07-28-06, 04:44 AM   #5
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why does 75% of this board want landis to be guilty?
Well for me, the clincher is the fact that he won the Tour de France.
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Old 07-28-06, 05:04 AM   #6
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Well for me, the clincher is the fact that he won the Tour de France.
harsh.
So do you hate every tdf winner?
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Old 07-28-06, 05:25 AM   #7
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I really want the guy to be cleared. I want to find out that he didn't dope. Unfortunately that's not the way the evidence is pointing.

I don't want to throw him to the lions. I'm waiting on the B sample but I won't hold my breath.
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Old 07-28-06, 07:01 AM   #8
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It doesn't matter if he is cleared by the Pope himself.

He has been convicted in the "court of public opinion", and thats all that matters. There will never be enough exculpatory evidence for Floyd to clear himself. I don't care if you drain him dry, test his blood, piss, spit, snot or any other body fluids and never find one iota of evidence he has ever used a PED.

His reputation, and probably his career are ruined, not by the possibility that he doped, but by the fact that the news got out that a "highly placed rider in the tour tested positive for a PED". It doesn't matter if it's the truth or not. It's all about perception anymore.

If Floyd is cleared of this charge that the media has leveled against him, I hope he is ruthless in finding and punishing (within the law) whoever let this cat out of the bag.
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Old 07-28-06, 07:14 AM   #9
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I certainly want him to be innocent but, as many have said, to date the evidence points in the direction of guilty. If the B sample is negative he will have little trouble with his career, team, etc. If negative however, . . .Also, the interview last night was not the most convincing and he answered some questions oddly:

Q - have you ever taken performance enhancing drugs?
FL - Umm. I'm going to say no to that.

Not a real emphatic "Hell no, never!" Maybe he was tired but he wasn't that energetic in his defense.

I still get back to the point of why do defenders (and dopers) attack the tests? Do you really think that if the tests were so wacked out that the pro-teams would sign contracts putting them, the sponsors, riders, etc at risk if they thought the tests were (according to many posters here) totally arbitrary?

Last edited by acrafton; 07-28-06 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 07-28-06, 07:20 AM   #10
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"Court of Public Opinion"......uh that doesn't matter. That didn't put OJ behind bars. Public Opinion is useless and fickle.

What matters are the facts. The fact is the tests showed an abnormality. But the fact is that the testing itself shows abnormalities: Testosterone needs to be taken over a period of time to be effective....yet all testing prior to the 17th show normal levels. A single shot will not produce the results we saw in Landis. The fact is that alcohol increases testo levels.

What we don't know is if Landis boozed it up or shot it up. Based on all the evidence (multiple negative tests, need for consecutive use of injections for performance boost, ability of alcohol to affect testo levels)...it is likely that Landis is innocent and judgement should be reserved until a thorough analyis is done.

If in fact it is alcohol related, I say that Landis could clear himself by trying to recreate the events that led up to the situation by undergoing a controlled study of alcohols affect on testo levels during a strenuous multi-day event for a high performance athlete.
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Old 07-28-06, 07:27 AM   #11
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I think the vast majority of this fourm wants desperately for it not to be true, but we're becoming pretty damn jaded and sceptical at this point. What I don't wan't, and cycling certainly doesn't need, is another Tyler Hamilton saga.
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Old 07-28-06, 08:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaninny
still the overwhelming, kuckledragging, f-him he's done in my book posts just amaze me.
Here we go. Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong all over again. They all must be innocent (well, they are American)

Quite simply... people are saying he is guilty because his A sample failed a doping test.
Personally I don't know why we should all assume that the test is incorrect.
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Old 07-28-06, 08:20 AM   #13
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Here we go. Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong all over again. They all must be innocent (well, they are American)
Yep. We have no problem calling Ulrich a doper, ever though I don't believe he failed any test. But as soon as an American fails there are screams of innocent until proven guilty.
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Old 07-28-06, 08:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggard
Yep. We have no problem calling Ulrich a doper, ever though I don't believe he failed any test. But as soon as an American fails there are screams of innocent until proven guilty.
That's a great generalization. I am American and I initially was pulling for Jan until he got banned unfairly. I think his team jumped the gun. But I feel that people just jump to conclusions way too fast. With just about anything. That's the one thing that the internet has really sped up. Rumors and Gossip. I still believe that Der Kaiser should have been allowed and I would have rooted for him. But once it began I went with the best of what was left.
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Old 07-28-06, 08:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mrkott3r
harsh.
So do you hate every tdf winner?
EURO didn't say he hated anyone. He's basically trying to say that he is among the camp who believe that any grand tour winner the elite UCI Pro Tour level of cycling has got to be on something more than his bike.

I think.
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Old 07-28-06, 08:34 AM   #16
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What we don't know is if Landis boozed it up or shot it up. Based on all the evidence (multiple negative tests, need for consecutive use of injections for performance boost, ability of alcohol to affect testo levels)...it is likely that Landis is innocent and judgement should be reserved until a thorough analyis is done.
Exactly...tell it to ESPN, CNN, MSNBC, Drudge, etc...

99% of the people in the USA couldn't care less about the TdF, until the media came out with headlines like "TdF Champion Landis Tests Positive for Testosterone." How many people read beyond the headline and gathered any real facts before making a judgement? I was at Dick's an hour ago and the cashiers were talking about Landis and how he should be banned for life.

Why muddy a headline with facts?
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Old 07-28-06, 08:36 AM   #17
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Nobody seems to pay even the slightest bit of attention to the fact that his actual testesterone level was relatively low. For whatever reason his epitesterone level was real low and triggered the test.

Now I've been around competitive weightlifting long enough to be pretty sure that a low testestrone level is not the desired result of "going 'round the horn" (injections are done in the thighs, hip erectors and glutes.) or even using patches on the 'nads. Where's the performance enhancer?

I'm not a biochemist and perhaps a low ratio even with relatively low testesterone levels will boost performance. If so then Floyd probably did something and deserves condemnation but I wish we'd get off the "high testerone" and "injecting" bit as that doesn't seem to hold water.

If somebody knows that a low testerone level combined with a real low epitesterone ratio is a performance enhancer please chime in. Obviously I'm backing Floyd but my support is not unconditional.
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Old 07-28-06, 09:21 AM   #18
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harsh.
So do you hate every tdf winner?
He's a miserable little troll, of course he does.
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Old 07-28-06, 09:35 AM   #19
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yes i saw the poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathrot
ummm... if you read the poll, i think it's 75% who think he's innocent...
Poll: Do you think Floyd Landis Doped?
but it seems like the poll does NOT reflect the individual posters or the sheer number of posts against landis
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Old 07-28-06, 09:42 AM   #20
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i would apply the standard to jan and basso also

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggard
Yep. We have no problem calling Ulrich a doper, ever though I don't believe he failed any test. But as soon as an American fails there are screams of innocent until proven guilty.
i never intended to single out landis (or american riders) for the 'special' innocent until guilty treatment. personally i think it's pinheads like dick pound that have created this witchhunt atmosphere. i heard pound interviewed on npr last night and it scares me how willing that guy is to destroy a persons career over a simple test or indicator.
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Old 07-28-06, 09:45 AM   #21
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If Floyd is cleared of this charge that the media has leveled against him, I hope he is ruthless in finding and punishing (within the law) whoever let this cat out of the bag.
There are no laws against letting the cat out of the bag. Unless he can show someone knowingly published false information he has no recourse. Considering what I have seen so far there is little out there that could even possibly rise to the legal standard.
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Old 07-28-06, 09:46 AM   #22
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It is getting regrettably easy to believe that professional athletes are using drugs.

That and the story that he bonked hard, got drunk and then destroyed everyone the next day is a little hard to swallow. To test it, tonight I will drink 4 beers and several shots. I will report back with my results tomorrow.

Last edited by barba; 07-28-06 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 07-28-06, 09:49 AM   #23
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Somebody in the lab broke a confidentiality agreement but that's happened in that lab before apparently. However, I doubt there's a role for the courts to play in this as what was broken was a term of employment, I'd assume and not a civil violation.
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Old 07-28-06, 10:12 AM   #24
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There are no laws against letting the cat out of the bag. Unless he can show someone knowingly published false information he has no recourse. Considering what I have seen so far there is little out there that could even possibly rise to the legal standard.
It is my understanding that the UCI has an agreement (or it is part of the contract) with this lab concerning confidentiality.

I also read on this board that this information was released through the UCI because the UCI felt that the lab would leak it anyway.

French/Europeon law is way out of my league, but if you breech a contract, don't you open yourself up to lawsuits?

Either way, it looks like someone opened their pie hole when they shouldn't have, and that is what is going to ruin Landis.
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Old 07-28-06, 10:32 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by barba
It is getting regrettably easy to believe that professional athletes are using drugs.

That and the story that he bonked hard, got drunk and then destroyed everyone the next day is a little hard to swallow. To test it, tonight I will drink 4 beers and several shots. I will report back with my results tomorrow.
Oh, so if Landis can do it so can you? How about you get testicular cancer too, then you TOO can win the TdF 7 times in a row! YAY!
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