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Old 07-30-06, 02:14 AM   #1
Trev
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Gatlin test Positive (athletics)

With all the talk of doping in the cycling circles, I read the following article on Eurosport.
Justin Gatlin 100m Olympic gold medallist and equal world record holder, 9.77secs.
Gatlin tested positive in an event back in April, so wondering how this is comparing in the news in the USA in comparison to Flandis. Has it even made the news etc. etc.

http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/...to634844.shtml
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Old 07-30-06, 03:32 AM   #2
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Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.
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Old 07-30-06, 11:57 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by existence
the point here is that american athletes seem to keep cropping up for drug cheating...is it simply because there is a higher standard of testing being done in USA or is it a problem with how athletes are educated and a 'culture' of acceptance of taking drugs?
Gatlin didn't test positive in the USA. It was a test in Europe. One thing of note about Gatlin, he tested positive while in college as well. He received a 2 year ban at that time. He's looking at a life ban this go around. Gatlin's coach, has coached 10 different atheletes who have been banned in the past.

Bonds has a couple of things going against him. He's never been liked by the media. That goes back long before he was in the hunt of the homerun title. He's always been antagonstic towards the media and they return the sentiments towards him. Now that he's chasing Aaron, they relish at the opportunity to tear him down. If Bonds wasn't looking at the homerun title and generally hated by the media, then he wouldn't be taking so much grief. He'd be getting it, but not nearly as much. Of course, the media seldom ever mentions that during the time of the Balco investigation, taking steriods and other performance enhancing drugs weren't even against the rules in Major League Baseball. That's a lot of hoopla for something that wasn't even violation of rules.

Gatlin will barely blip the media here. Just like the rest of the American track stars that were linked to the Balco investigation. Take Marion Jones. Her ex-husband was linked to Balco, has tested positive, and has been banned. The father of her child, Tim Montgomery, was caught up in Balco, has tested positive, and has been banned. Marion was linked to Balco but has yet to test positive to anything. Most people aren't even aware of it. The average sports fan probabaly doesn't even realize that the Balco investigation started off as a track and field scandal. Bonds and Giambi just happened to be clients as well.

Of course if you ask any of these athletes, none of them ever took anything to enhance their performance. They have no idea what happened.
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Old 07-30-06, 12:43 PM   #4
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I read that as well this morning. And what I was wondering is this: Gatlin tested positive for testosterone also but it appears that the test was different than the one Floyd had. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this test seems like it would be able to tell for sure whether the testosterone was originating from the athlete's natural body processes or from an outside source. Here's the quote... and why don't they do this one of Floyd? Wouldn't that test actually be more definitive?

QUOTE: (the cyclist in question is of course FL)
<<The test on the cyclist measured the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his system and found an imbalance. Gatlin's test was different. Called a carbon-isotope ratio test, it is essentially a test that looks only at testosterone, not epitestosterone, and can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural. The results of both athletes' tests point to the same type of violation of illegal-substance policy.
In his statement, Gatlin said he tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors." "Precursors" is another term for anabolic steroids.>>

Anybody?
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Old 07-30-06, 12:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

It's a heinous plot, perpetrated by THE MAN, to keep the brother down!
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Old 07-30-06, 12:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.
The only actual facts that can be gleaned from your post are that Landis is white and Bonds is black. Perhaps you should post some verifiable examples of your claims.
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Old 07-30-06, 02:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAnn
I read that as well this morning. And what I was wondering is this: Gatlin tested positive for testosterone also but it appears that the test was different than the one Floyd had. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this test seems like it would be able to tell for sure whether the testosterone was originating from the athlete's natural body processes or from an outside source. Here's the quote... and why don't they do this one of Floyd? Wouldn't that test actually be more definitive?

QUOTE: (the cyclist in question is of course FL)
<<The test on the cyclist measured the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his system and found an imbalance. Gatlin's test was different. Called a carbon-isotope ratio test, it is essentially a test that looks only at testosterone, not epitestosterone, and can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural. The results of both athletes' tests point to the same type of violation of illegal-substance policy.
In his statement, Gatlin said he tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors." "Precursors" is another term for anabolic steroids.>>

Anybody?
I'm not a biochemist or doctor. But here's an attempt at explaining it for you...

A cyclist wouldn't necessarily take steroids. While track sprinter would definitely benifit from certain types of steroids. You have to remember that anyone doping and/or taking other performance enhancing drugs is going to do or take anything possible not to test positive. The specific drug might not show up on a test because of masking agents. The tests don't necessarily look for the specific drug. The tests will look for unusual variables, like high levels of testosterone(or ratios in Landis' case), that will indicate that the subject has been doping/juicing.

So basically different sports, different types of cheating, different testing process.
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Old 07-30-06, 02:33 PM   #8
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MaryAnn,

In the Landis situation the IRMS is the second test and either will or won't be the "smoking gun." (Some French media are reporting that Landis' has also failed this test. I don't know but I thought that test wasn't administered to A samples.)

The test that we know Landis has trouble with is not proof of doping in and of itself but a suspicious sign that calls for the more sophisticated IRMS test. If Gatlin or Landis fail(ed) the IRMS they're in trouble.

My guess is that Gatlin had the same initial test as Landis but confidentiality was maintained until the positive on the IRMS came out. That's the way it's supposed to happen anyways.
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Old 07-30-06, 02:37 PM   #9
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Btw Bonds is pretty hard to defend except by pointing out, as has been, that baseball turned a blind eye to steroids until the home run situation became ridiculous. No way to know of course but if the white Mark McGwire were still playing he'd be catching an awful lot of heat too. He'll be eligible for Hall of Fame induction soon, that'll be interesting.
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Old 07-30-06, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter
Btw Bonds is pretty hard to defend except by pointing out, as has been, that baseball turned a blind eye to steroids until the home run situation became ridiculous. No way to know of course but if the white Mark McGwire were still playing he'd be catching an awful lot of heat too. He'll be eligible for Hall of Fame induction soon, that'll be interesting.
The only thing that really bothers me about the heat that Bonds is getting is that nobody else is getting any. There were a whole lot of players juicing. But the general perception is that Bonds is the only one that was. There is no way to know who was or wasn't. Everyone likes to point out the muscle gain by Bonds. But take a look a Mark McGwire when came up with Oakland versus his days in St. Louis. Huge difference. The only reason Bonds came up is because of his link to Balco through his trainer.

Incidently, since baseball started testing, pitchers have been caught more than position players juicing. Years ago, the baseball mentality was that lifting weights would have a negative effect on a batter's swing and a pitchers arm motion. So much for that train of thought...
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Old 07-30-06, 04:24 PM   #11
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I've also heard comments from various players that now that baseball is testing alot of pitchers don't seem to be throwing so hard. Of course, like in cycling, names are not actually dropped.

Like I said it'll be interesting to see how McGwire's Hall of Fame voting goes.



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Old 07-30-06, 05:10 PM   #12
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A cyclist wouldn't necessarily take steroids.
Why not?
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Old 07-30-06, 08:52 PM   #13
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bonds is an active player...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionKhan
The only thing that really bothers me about the heat that Bonds is getting is that nobody else is getting any. There were a whole lot of players juicing. But the general perception is that Bonds is the only one that was. There is no way to know who was or wasn't. Everyone likes to point out the muscle gain by Bonds. But take a look a Mark McGwire when came up with Oakland versus his days in St. Louis. Huge difference. The only reason Bonds came up is because of his link to Balco through his trainer.

Incidently, since baseball started testing, pitchers have been caught more than position players juicing. Years ago, the baseball mentality was that lifting weights would have a negative effect on a batter's swing and a pitchers arm motion. So much for that train of thought...

...and mark mcgwire is retired - bonds hated and antagonized the media...mcgwire did not - bonds is generally quite good at acting like an a$s...mcgwire knew how to act humble and use the 'aww shucks' routine - bonds had a balco connection...mcgwire did not.
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Old 07-30-06, 08:56 PM   #14
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tests were NOT the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

the report i heard this morning said that gatlin tested positive for the CIR (carbon isotope ratio) test which supposedly can discerne artifical testosterone from naturally occuring - the CIR test is most likely where landis will go if the b sample comes back positive. i found it interesting that gatlin or rather track and field was able to keep the results secret for 2.5 weeks. cycling testing labs seem to be a hotbed for blabbermouths but i'm sure that is on dick pounds to-do list.
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Old 07-30-06, 09:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.
Is this what you want? seems you are trying to create/perpetuate racism, where no evidence of any is taking place. Remember, when there is no victim, or drama or white supremist plot. create it.

Just in case you are confused, you are part of the problem.
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Old 07-30-06, 11:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Devil
Why not?
Well, to re-phrase...A cyclist would benefit from other types of performance enhancing such as doping. Particularly in events such as the grand tours. Steroids will help any athelete. After all, being stronger and faster is always an advantage.
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Old 07-30-06, 11:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaninny
i found it interesting that gatlin or rather track and field was able to keep the results secret for 2.5 weeks. cycling testing labs seem to be a hotbed for blabbermouths but i'm sure that is on dick pounds to-do list.
Interesting point. Its actually common for T&F test results to stay under wraps. Which tends to add to the conspiracy theory mindset amongst the a lot of the T&F people. Basically, things can happen in that period between when the test results are learned and when they are actually reports to the media.

There is so much at stake at the elite level of these sports. Unfortunately, scandals are common in both sports. Its hard to say which is the best method.
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Old 07-31-06, 12:08 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.
Troll.

But feeding troll is my hobby, I can't afford a koi pond, so here's my response:

Because Lance never brought his son to a press conference, made him cry. And then said that the press made him cry.
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Old 07-31-06, 04:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionKhan
Well, to re-phrase...A cyclist would benefit from other types of performance enhancing such as doping. Particularly in events such as the grand tours. Steroids will help any athelete. After all, being stronger and faster is always an advantage.
For the record, there are many different kinds of steroids. You're referring to anabolic steroids however, and those just don't make you stronger, they also aid substantially in recovery and maintaining/rebuilding lean mass. Also, the term doping refers to all methods of use re: performance enhancing drugs.
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Old 07-31-06, 05:00 AM   #20
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let me guess? drank all the tom tidley at the nuclear sub with flanders?
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Old 07-31-06, 07:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryAnn
I read that as well this morning. And what I was wondering is this: Gatlin tested positive for testosterone also but it appears that the test was different than the one Floyd had. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this test seems like it would be able to tell for sure whether the testosterone was originating from the athlete's natural body processes or from an outside source. Here's the quote... and why don't they do this one of Floyd? Wouldn't that test actually be more definitive?

QUOTE: (the cyclist in question is of course FL)
<<The test on the cyclist measured the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his system and found an imbalance. Gatlin's test was different. Called a carbon-isotope ratio test, it is essentially a test that looks only at testosterone, not epitestosterone, and can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural. The results of both athletes' tests point to the same type of violation of illegal-substance policy.
In his statement, Gatlin said he tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors." "Precursors" is another term for anabolic steroids.>>

Anybody?
MaryAnn, read this http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s29landis.html

The test referred to in Gatlin's case is a carbon radioisotope test, and it looks probable that its already been done on Landis and was positive.
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Old 07-31-06, 07:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.
I think there is a much easier non racial explanation. We don't care about track and field or Gatlin, and we assume sprinters ala Ben Johnson use steroids. So when we hear Gatlin's positive, we go ok, what's new and go on.

We do care about cycling and Landis. He's our hero and we want to believe in him. Consequently a fair number of people on this forum are willing to swallow a fair amount (i.e. Floyd's rapidly increasing bar tab) and make a lot of tortured arguments (it's alll a big french lie) to suspend their disbelief.

One other significant difference is that Gatlin's B sample has been tested and the testing process has run its course. I'm willing to give Landis the benefit of the doubt until its confirmed, but I'd bet heavy the B sample and the radioisotope test are going to hang Landis.
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Old 07-31-06, 10:34 AM   #23
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Jim Rome was just talking about how the official excuse from the Gatlin camp is that a disgruntled masseuse rubbed 'testosterone cream' into Gatlin's legs during a pre-race massage.

Can't help but laugh at that one... but hey, at least they're trying.
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Old 07-31-06, 10:49 AM   #24
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Masseuse rubbed testosterone containing substance into his thigh? Didn't she have a tissue?
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Old 07-31-06, 11:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionKhan
Gatlin didn't test positive in the USA. It was a test in Europe. One thing of note about Gatlin, he tested positive while in college as well. He received a 2 year ban at that time. He's looking at a life ban this go around. Gatlin's coach, has coached 10 different atheletes who have been banned in the past.
Actually, I think Gatlin was tested after a relay meet in Kansas. In college, his positive resulted from a prescription for his Attention Deficit Disorder condition.
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