Helmet Head

So, NOW do you think Floyd doped?

sunninho

NOW that I voted, his Sample B better come back positive this weekend

Raedeke

My vote is that he didn't.
The testing practices are not being done in anonymity and I'm leaning on the idea of the French Connection.

The knew which was Floyd's sample, added their own version of Vive La France...AKA Synthetic Testosterone and Viola...."no more American winning our race"

Frankly, I wouldn't put it past them. And in reality someone needs to review the testing practices as much as they need to review the doping practices.

If Floyd goes down, and we then find that there are major discrepancies in the way the Tour testing is done, I'm saying it's probably going to make it 100, but it will never be the same race on the same scale again.

In the end they may say that Floyd is guilty. But unless they can also prove that the testing was done in such a way that it's not possible for there to have been any foul play against him.. then it's all political as Oscar said. And such a shame and sham it will be...

Helmet Head

Why on Earth would anyone in the French lab care about whether Floyd won the Tour enough to risk his career and freedom (probably would get prison for this) by intentionally putting some artificial testosterone in Floyd's samples just so some ex-Phonak Spanish guy could win the Tour instead of the American Phonak guy?

Isn't it much more likely that Floyd is just as guilty as Tyler Hamilton and the 2, 3, and #4 finishers from last year are likely to be shown to be after the Spanish scandal is resolved?

krazygluon

how about an option for "I'm still waiting on the b results" because I am.

IRMS probably is just about as bombproof of a test as is available for this sort of thing, but redundancy in testing is just good practice and I don't think anything should have been said about this without both being tested by two independent labs in as anonymous a fashion as possible, preferably with some kind of blind procedures being run.

if he is guilty, I think he should be subjected to public humiliation via matt stone and trey parker of southpark along with Ulrich and the others, just as they did to a few doping baseball players one episode.

'nother

I agree, this "French Connection" business is a bit far-fetched. It's about like explaining to a police officer about to give you a ticket for speeding that some Unknown Bad Person tampered with your speedometer in a way that caused you to be able to go 80 in a 55 zone without noticing.

My heart wants to believe Floyd but my brain is saying, "the simplest explanation is usually the best" and considering the defeat in stage 16 and the amazing comeback in stage 17 and the coincidence of a (apparently) positive test for exogenous testosterone on the day of stage 17 that seems pretty simple. A lot simpler than some crazy conspiracy theories about "the French".

I'll reserve judgement on the matter until the authorities have made their own judgement, but It's hard to deny that the dark clouds are gathering pretty heavily over Mr. Landis right about now.

EURO

Yeah, and I still have a dollar on a 40,000/1 bet. Keeping my fingers crossed!!

HWS

I'm sitting on the fence, my "Floyds a cheat" side balanced by blind faith.

I am curious as to why the details of the A sample are being leaked out so slowly instead of everything coming out at once last week.

merlinextraligh

Now that I've learned I have to share my TDF prediction title if Landis is positive, I have thought this over, and it is clear that Landis is the victim of a french conspiracy, the sample must have been altered, he naturaly produces a high level of testosterone, the results were thrown off by alcohol and dehydration, the isotope test is invalid, he was the victim of a spiked waterbottle, and/or his massuese rubbed "the clear" into his thigh without his knowledge.

Trevor98

I am more interested in the results from the A sample that will be released after the B sample testing. The leaks and rumors are annoying.

Zouf

Yeah - let's trick it, so that a -oops - Spaniard can win. Damn. Ok, let's find something on the Spaniard, so that a - German can win. Damn. Ok, let's find... 6 of them have to be thrown out before you can finally get a Frenchman on top of the podium. Good theory.

If some time was spent looking at *all* the riders that receive doping sanctions in a year, instead of only Americans, one could see that Americans represent but a small fraction of all sanctions. But of course, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there to hear it, it makes no sound; and if anything happens to a non-American outside the US, it does not happen.

It's "voilà", not "viola" - unless you're into chamber music, of course.

Helmet Head

Take it up with Floyd, his team and his doctor, since that's who leaked:

1. that it was Floyd who failed a doping test
2. that his T/E ratio in the A sample was 11:1
3. that they expect the same results for the B sample
4. that he would ask for the B sample test on Friday
5. that he asked for the B sample test not until Monday (coincidentally only after the UCI asked for it too)

The only relevant leak that did not come from them was that the lab found artificial testosterone in the A sample.

merlinextraligh

and Landis' personal physician confirmed that information

Helmet Head

I missed that. First, l"Equipe reported it. Then the NY Times. But I never heard about a confirmation from Landis' doctor.
Got a link?

Trevor98

Why is a physician commenting on a patient?

Helmet Head

Because, out of desperation, the patient is asking him too.
Also, it may be that the physician is the one who screwed up the calculation on how much steroid to administer.

Alekhine

I think most of the "French conspiracy theory" types are under the impression that 'the French' hate Americans as much as Americans apparently hate 'the French' and couldn't give a damn that it went to a Spaniard or a German or a Fijian or a Martian, as long as it didn't go to another American. Don't quote me on that though - it's just the vibe I've been getting locally about it.

"Those French bastards hate America and everything it stands for! They'd do anything to make sweet, honest, Christian mennonite Floyd seem like the devil!"

hombredebicycle

I seriously doubt an American doctor with a decent regular practice--as Floyd's doctor does-- would involve himself in doping for the reason that the California Licensing Board is very tough, for a variety of reasons, and I feel fairly sure the guy could lose his license or get suspended. Testosterone in this country is a controlled substance, because of the likelihood of abuse, so you could also fall afoul of the DEA, who gives doctors their rights to prescribe controlled substances. And if there is one thing I can assure you of, you do not want to mess with hte DEA.

Sometimes even respected pain specialists have issues with the DEA for prescribing large volumes of controlled substances, but thos guys document everything very very carefully so there is no funny business.

So Floyds doc may be a good guy taken in by someone doing something not so great. I believe that to be the most likely scenario

merlinextraligh

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/sp...rtner=homepage

Trevor98

Dr. Brent Kay is an American doctor and cannot comment upon the case without the patients approval (or chance a ethics board and lawsuits). Commenting upon the case either happened a) illegally b) with Landis' approval (still questionable ethically) or c) it didn't happen- the only three possibilities. I would like to know which one. I hope, for the doctors sake, rather than Landis' that he confirmed the leak with permission (Landis is thus done for).

Karlotta

Explain the ethical question involved.

SoonerBent

I'm starting to have serious doubts. I hate to think that a rider would be stupid enough to take something that, according to almost everything I've read, doesn't provide instant performance enhancement. Then be even more stupid and win the stage knowing that he'll be tested. But I'm beginning to think that's what happened.

Those weren't leaks. They were public statements from known sources. I have to agree with Trevor98 that I'm sick of the leaks from anonymous sources.

SB

dutret

So far they have all been confirmed by the Landis' people in this case so I don't see the problem.

Helmet Head

Uh, they were both on Larry King, Landis practically begging Kay to explain everything.

When King asked Kay if Landis was the current best cyclist in the world, Kay answered something like "without a question".

Dolomiti

https://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10613.0.html