bellweatherman

Doesn't look to good for Landis. He just tested positive again. And his lawyers & PR crew have their hands full now. Not only did Landis test positive again, but now they gotta figure out how they can keep him from putting his foot into his mouth all over again. Remember all the multiple and different excuses right after he first tested positive? Then, with advice from his lawyers he settled on one excuse. Now, it's not looking good at all. They just had him on TV and they asked him why the 2nd samples (B samples) came back positive today. Turn to ESPN. It's linked on the homepage and they might show a clip on it later tonite. Anyway, he didn't even answer the question. He just flatly stated that it was a violation of his rights to have the B sample tested, or some crappo like that.


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goldenear

I feel so horribly for Landis. He rode such a great Tour and for this to happen is just so unfortunate. I sincerely wish the guy nothing but the best, but I don't think he's ever going to recover from this. For an entire team to go down along with the career of an obviously great cyclist over a little bit of testosterone is just ludicrous. Maybe Big Pharma can figure out a way to beat the isotope test, lol.

marin1

I am stunned, I never saw this coming.

Blaireau

You gotta to be kidding!

Hezz

How is it possible that all of his "A" samples could have tested negative and all his "B" samples tested positive. This is not possible if they have used valid and consistent testing procedures. Because it is saying that all the "A" tests were wrong and all the "B" sample tests were right. This is not valid logic. It only shows that the testing is bad or being manipulated.

This is not possible with good science. Either they have changed the testing procedure for the "B" samples or the "B" samples were spiked, or they specifically followed the same faulty test procedure they used for the stage 17 positive test result. The last option is I believe what they have done. Hence not allowing Landis's representatives to observe. This lab and the USADA and WADA are dirty, period.

marin1

I am

DMF 

It's not crap (or whatever "crappo" actually is). According to WADA protocols he is allowed to have his representative present during the re-test. The lab refused to allow his rep into the building and "tested" it anyway.

Besides, the reliability of the isotope test has never been established (unless you listen the guy that invented it; he thinks it's faultless).

This is looking more and more like a railroad job.

jaxgtr

LNDD re-tested, do you actually think they are going to come back anything but positive?

same time

Are you serious? If all his A samples had tested negative, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.

Floyd's A sample after stage 17 tripped the t/e ratio test, and so was tested for exogenous testosterone. That test showed he had testosterone in his body that wasn't his. So, they tested the B sample, and it showed the same thing, an elevated t/e ratio and exogenous testosterone. Floyd's A samples from after stage 17 never tripped the t/e ratio test, so were never tested further for exogenous testosterone. A couple of weeks ago, the USADA stepped in and asked for the B samples to be tested, and, if we believe the current reports, they turned up positive for exogenous testosterone as well.

The amount of misinformation flying around about Floyd's case is just stunning. You can read what has happened so far here:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...g06/aug05news2

bellweatherman

Oh dear god! Floyd needs to just stop talking to the media because he is not making himself look good at all. They just had him on ESPN again on a show called Cold Pizza. The reporter asks him how does he explain the new test results. Again, he avoids the question, and rambles about leakages of the results to the press, invasion of his privacy, etc. but still does not answer the question. I really think his legal team is going about this the wrong way. If team Landis has instructed him not to answer direct questions, he needs to stop talking to the media and keep his defense to written prepared answers. This is all on ESPN's website. Click the video player and search through latest videos for the Cold Pizza show, Landis denies doping allegations.

Blaireau

The guy's pathetic Thanks for the link, though.

keithdunlop

Because from what I understand, this time they specific looked for "synthetic" testosterone. The first test was just to check the ratio. I think the major finding now, and the biggest hurdle for Floyd to ovecome is why the "B" samples show a synthetic substance. Just my take.

Blaireau

You just hate America.

Hezz

Sorry for not being more specific. But I was talking about the other TDF samples other than stage 17. Those are the ones they re-tested.

Somehow I forgot that the tests on the "B" samples used the radio isotope test. Still it is suspicious that the LNDD lab was told to not let in Floyds representative. We can only conclude they were afraid of being made to look incompetent.

bellweatherman

In this situation I think it would be inapporpriate to allow Landis team into the lab to oversee the testing. The circus atmosphere and finger pointing that resulted would prevent the lab technicians from carrying about their job. The also did not allow the USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency) in the lab as well. You don't see them crying foul/.

USAZorro

No. You don't see the USADA doing jack squat besides kow-towing to WADA.

bellweatherman

Don't get me wrong. I feel sorry for Landis, but his team is going about this all the wrong way. There is a general premise in legal defense. And that is, the further up sh*t creek you get, the less you need to speak. They really need to have him either come clean or just keep his responses to written answers. BTW, the USADA marches to the beat of their own drum. If anything, WADA and Dick Pound take action based on their recommendation.

dagna

Whether they are straight up and competent, or not, it certainly presents the appearance of a conflict of interest. And, in the military, we are always taught that the appearance of a conflict of interest is just as condemning as an actual conflict of interest.

I am on the fence, intellectually. But practically, it seems to me that for the same lab to confirm their own tests certainly presents the appearance of a conflict of interest. And then it came out that not only the *same lab* but the *same techs* tested both the A and B samples originally. There's got to be a strong urge to confirm your own results (whether acted upon or not), which IMHO is an actual conflict of interest, not simply the appearance of a conflict of interest. How likely is it that the same tech is going to say, "Oops, sorry, I was wrong. Blame the whole debacle on me" ? The testing procedures, to me, have been hopelessly compromised. But, of course, that's to someone from an "innocent until proven guilty" background. It might look very different to someone from a "guilty until proven innocent" environment. Which *does* seem to describe a great deal of Europe.

Rincewind8

They were only denied access during two of the tests, not all.

Blue Jays

If Jesus Christ himself were to return to earth and race in the Tour de France with an American flag on his sleeve, the French would fabricate a way to say he was on performance-enhancing drugs.

USAZorro

I agree in general, but not on the specifics here. Floyd had to remain visible because mounting his defense is taking more $$ than he can afford by himself. True, he didn't help himself any initially, but that's water under the bridge.

As for USADA - perhaps in general they wield a lot of influence, but how do they not at least recommend that the samples be re-tested at a different facility? It seems that they're being 100% complacent as Floyd is getting lashed to the tracks. Whether he used substances or not, it certainly seems that his persecutors get to break every rule they feel like breaking with complete impunity. That is not what I consider justice.

bellweatherman

Had this been an Olympic competition, then I think USADA has more say-so since the athletes are in essence representing the USA and wearing the red, white, blue. Pro Cycling is very privatized and the rider rides for an employer. The Tour, while truly an international race, is similar in that regards. Point is USADA has a voice, but this is totally out of their jurisdiction.

I don't agree that Landis needs to take to the media right now. Any attorney will tell a client to just shut up once the sh*t starts hitting the fan. Landis can only hurt his own credibility with their current defense. I think he really needs to seek another opinion because it sounds like his defense team is totally milking his funds dry.

Hezz

Thanks for that clarification. I read an article yesterday on the proceedings but somehow I missed that. In the two articles that I read they just stated that his reps were denied access and the one article said that someone from USADA told LNDD not to let them in.

sunninho

Jesus Christ wouldn't enter a bike race, in the first place. (If he did he'd be at the rear counseling the slow-pokes)

If he did, wouldn't he easily be able to mask whatever drugs he took to win? (If he could turn blood into wine and flesh into bread, that is...)

Seriously, Floyd is no Jesus Christ and Floyd is guilty as SIN

Keith99

Source? Not that I don't trust you, but I want to ba sort of sure and It always seems easy to find the lazy non-detailed sources and hard to find the ones that give important details like this.

BTW this does serve to point out one of the reasons to never trust either camp in an issue like this. The Landis camp has been trying to make it seem that access was denied for all tests.

Were the tests in question the first 2 run? As in the tests run before the US reps showed up?