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Old 07-19-07, 03:00 PM   #1
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Payback is Hell

Just ask Moreau after stage 11

"What Vino did was not unfair," conceded Moreau. "Settling scores is part of the sport. When I attacked [in the Alps] he was not well. Today I was the one who was not that well."

I just knew ole Vino was going to make somebody's legs ache before this was over.
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Old 07-19-07, 03:03 PM   #2
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Yea but I wonder if Astana will ride the tour for revenge or to win. I hope for the latter, but with Vino the former is likely.

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Old 07-19-07, 03:11 PM   #3
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I think Kloden will ride for the win. I don't know what Vino's condition makes him capable of doing.
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Old 07-19-07, 03:12 PM   #4
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Being a self destructive pain in the *****.

Richard

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I think Kloden will ride for the win. I don't know what Vino's condition makes him capable of doing.
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Old 07-19-07, 03:12 PM   #5
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loved it
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Old 07-19-07, 04:15 PM   #6
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At least Moreau is being professional about this
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Old 07-19-07, 04:19 PM   #7
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Being a self destructive pain in the *****.
Still no love for Vino?
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Old 07-19-07, 04:24 PM   #8
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It depends. If he has his team go crazy trying for revenge then no. It will be exciting, but Kloden has a chance.

Richard

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Still no love for Vino?
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Old 07-19-07, 05:13 PM   #9
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Vino was sometimes the only one adding excitement to the tour during Lance's years, we can't ask him to go quietly now!
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Old 07-19-07, 05:22 PM   #10
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Just ask Moreau after stage 11

"What Vino did was not unfair," conceded Moreau. "Settling scores is part of the sport. When I attacked [in the Alps] he was not well. Today I was the one who was not that well."

I just knew ole Vino was going to make somebody's legs ache before this was over.

yep now barring devine intervention they are both out of it .

ed rader

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Old 07-19-07, 05:27 PM   #11
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I kinda don't get this. Moreau didn't attack right after Vino crashed. Vino crashed on stage 5. Moreau's attacks were on Stage 8. He couldn't put the race on hold forever until Vino got better. How could Vinokurov/Astans hold anything against Moreau for that? Moreau's comments are not clear to me.
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Old 07-19-07, 05:37 PM   #12
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Seems like a coincidence to me. I think Moreau is being paranoid.
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Old 07-19-07, 05:58 PM   #13
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Seems like a coincidence to me. I think Moreau is being paranoid.
One thing we know for sure. Astana did attack when Moreau was recovering from a crash. Hunter's post race comments confirm that the attack was known in the peloton by some, not all, riders. Hunter was in on it, which is why he was able to get into the front group. The motives for the attack are still unclear. Attacking when turning into a cross wind is a recognized strategy that we've seen used in the not so distant past by Riis in Paris-Nice to his advantage. But it seems kinda sleazy for Astana to do it on a flat stage to gain an advantage after a key GC contender crashed and is getting service. I'm not sure there is a comparison here to the attack Discovery put in a few years, Stage 3 2004, back at the start of the cobbles to put pressure on the riders who could not ride well on the cobbles and Mayo ended up going down.

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Old 07-19-07, 08:20 PM   #14
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I think the reasons are unclear. Moreau's attacks were not aimed at Vino anyway, rather at his unimaginative elite companions, who weren't doing much. Maybe Moreau can snag a stage now.
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Old 07-19-07, 08:42 PM   #15
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Being a self destructive pain in the *****.

Richard
that IS Vino's specialty.
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Old 07-19-07, 08:55 PM   #16
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I think Kloden will ride for the win. I don't know what Vino's condition makes him capable of doing.
Not holding up Kloden would be a start.
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Old 07-19-07, 09:10 PM   #17
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I'm not sure there is a comparison here to the attack Discovery put in a few years, Stage 3 2004, back at the start of the cobbles to put pressure on the riders who could not ride well on the cobbles and Mayo ended up going down.
Well, it is a race you know. It seemed more like they were just pushing to be in the front of the cobbles since they knew they were less likely to have problems being out front. The result of that is that anyone who isn't strong enough to ride the cobbles and be in front of them is going to be the one with a problem.

The whole point of racing is to put pressure on other riders who can't ride well at any point in the race. I've never seen why some people had a problem with Discovery using that tactic that day.

It's a race.
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Old 07-19-07, 09:26 PM   #18
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Well, it is a race you know. It seemed more like they were just pushing to be in the front of the cobbles since they knew they were less likely to have problems being out front. The result of that is that anyone who isn't strong enough to ride the cobbles and be in front of them is going to be the one with a problem.

The whole point of racing is to put pressure on other riders who can't ride well at any point in the race. I've never seen why some people had a problem with Discovery using that tactic that day.

It's a race.
That was my point. I agree, but thanks for letting me know it's a race.
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Old 07-20-07, 12:06 AM   #19
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Moreau was attacking when everyone realized that Vino was hurting (in the days after his crash) and that Kloden was being ordered to hold up and help him. He was trying to put Kolden and Vino away early.
Astana just payed him back.
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Old 07-20-07, 12:17 AM   #20
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How much is today's effort going to cost Astana in the Pyrenees? Presumably, only Vino and Kloden will be riding the Saturday TT hard... will everyone else take a recovery day?
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Old 07-20-07, 04:17 AM   #21
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One thing we know for sure. Astana did attack when Moreau was recovering from a crash. Hunter's post race comments confirm that the attack was known in the peloton by some, not all, riders. Hunter was in on it, which is why he was able to get into the front group. The motives for the attack are still unclear. Attacking when turning into a cross wind is a recognized strategy that we've seen used in the not so distant past by Riis in Paris-Nice to his advantage. But it seems kinda sleazy for Astana to do it on a flat stage to gain an advantage after a key GC contender crashed and is getting service. I'm not sure there is a comparison here to the attack Discovery put in a few years, Stage 3 2004, back at the start of the cobbles to put pressure on the riders who could not ride well on the cobbles and Mayo ended up going down.
Excellent post. Spot on.
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Old 07-20-07, 04:20 AM   #22
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Moreau was attacking when everyone realized that Vino was hurting (in the days after his crash) and that Kloden was being ordered to hold up and help him. He was trying to put Kolden and Vino away early.
Astana just payed him back.

They attacked when Moreau was at the medical car.

They, Astana, can do what they want. But realize that there's all these other teams, now, that most likely will not work with them. So they win the battle to lose the war. My guess is that they realized their Tour is most likely toast and did what they did without caring.

Like Skinny said, it's a bit sleazy.
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Old 07-20-07, 04:22 AM   #23
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How much is today's effort going to cost Astana in the Pyrenees? Presumably, only Vino and Kloden will be riding the Saturday TT hard... will everyone else take a recovery day?
I don't think they care anymore.
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Old 07-20-07, 05:08 AM   #24
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I think the reasons are unclear. Moreau's attacks were not aimed at Vino anyway, rather at his unimaginative elite companions, who weren't doing much. Maybe Moreau can snag a stage now.
Moreau's attacks stage 8 were clearly intended to put time on Vino. He specifically stated in the post stage 8 interview that he wanted the other contenders to work with him because Vinokurov would ride himself back into this race if they didn't open up time while they had the chance.
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Old 07-20-07, 05:19 AM   #25
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Moreau's attacks stage 8 were clearly intended to put time on Vino. He specifically stated in the post stage 8 interview that he wanted the other contenders to work with him because Vinokurov would ride himself back into this race if they didn't open up time while they had the chance.
Exactly.
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