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-   -   So does Levi take a long flyer? (http://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/324137-so-does-levi-take-long-flyer.html)

merlinextraligh 07-23-07 09:47 AM

So does Levi take a long flyer?
 
I'd love to see Levi launch an early attack on Stage 16, say on the Marie Blanque.

Here's my thought process:

1) Contador has to take time from Rasmussen on Stage 16 to have a realistic chance to win the TDF.

2) Levi is highly enoughed placed that gaining a few minutes could give him a shot at Yellow, and therefore would have to be respected by Rabobank.

3) So an attack by Levi puts Rasmussen and Rabobank under pressure, improving Cantador's chances of riding away from Rasmussen on the Aubisque.

4) If it works Levi gets on the podium, or outside possibility wins, and might pick up a stage.

5) If it doesn't work, he drops down from 4th which is no BFD.


The Marie Blanque has a 13% section which would be a great place to attack. He could even try going on an earlier climb, ala Landis.

I don't think Levi will necessarily do this. Not sure he's got the horses to pull it off, and I think he'll ride conservatively to protect his standing on GC, but wouldn't it be a great strategy?

reef58 07-23-07 09:58 AM

I was thinking the same. I doubt if Ras will get to upset with Levi gaining a minute or so though. They would have to keep tight control on it. It would like force Astana and Lotto to do the chasing.

Richard

Jet Travis 07-23-07 10:15 AM

Maybe Levi just needs a couple of shots of bourbon. It worked for Landis.:p

gcl8a 07-23-07 10:23 AM

Hey! That was my idea!

serpico7 07-23-07 01:21 PM

I agree with merlin that it might make sense to burn out Rabobank early in the stage by getting Levi in a breakaway. Keep George and Popo fresh and let Contador sit on wheels until the final climb where Disco can really isolate and attack Chicken.

USAZorro 07-23-07 01:23 PM

I don't think it will happen. I think Astana will be the aggressors tomorrow.

plainsdrifter 07-23-07 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 4909432)
I'd love to see Levi launch an early attack on Stage 16, say on the Marie Blanque.

Here's my thought process:

1) Contador has to take time from Rasmussen on Stage 16 to have a realistic chance to win the TDF.

2) Levi is highly enoughed placed that gaining a few minutes could give him a shot at Yellow, and therefore would have to be respected by Rabobank.

3) So an attack by Levi puts Rasmussen and Rabobank under pressure, improving Cantador's chances of riding away from Rasmussen on the Aubisque.

4) If it works Levi gets on the podium, or outside possibility wins, and might pick up a stage.

5) If it doesn't work, he drops down from 4th which is no BFD.

The Marie Blanque has a 13% section which would be a great place to attack. He could even try going on an earlier climb, ala Landis.

I don't think Levi will necessarily do this. Not sure he's got the horses to pull it off, and I think he'll ride conservatively to protect his standing on GC, but wouldn't it be a great strategy?

He's been saying that he would make his move in the Pyrenees so he'd better give it a shot. If he totally blows up, who cares, at least he went down fighting and I think he would gain alot of respect.

If he chooses to ride conservatively to protect his standing on GC, so be it, but with his past placings in the Tour being 13, 6, 9, and 8 you gotta think he'll go for it. Don't forget that he's 33 yrs old.

same time 07-23-07 02:46 PM

If he does, it'll be to soften up Rasmussen/Rabobank for Contador. It won't be Levi's decision, it'll be team orders. Discovery has GOT to be riding for Contador now, not Levi.

Lithuania 07-23-07 02:49 PM

wednesday has so much potential to go nuts. Astana and Discovery could just one two rabo to death putting contador and kloeden on the podium.

Vinokurtov 07-23-07 02:51 PM

The only flyer Levi will take is on an airplane back home when the Tour is over.

merlinextraligh 07-23-07 06:05 PM

^^^^
I'm afraid that's true.

gpelpel 07-23-07 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 4909432)
I'd love to see Levi launch an early attack on Stage 16, say on the Marie Blanque.
Here's my thought process:
1) Contador has to take time from Rasmussen on Stage 16 to have a realistic chance to win the TDF.
2) Levi is highly enoughed placed that gaining a few minutes could give him a shot at Yellow, and therefore would have to be respected by Rabobank.
3) So an attack by Levi puts Rasmussen and Rabobank under pressure, improving Cantador's chances of riding away from Rasmussen on the Aubisque.
4) If it works Levi gets on the podium, or outside possibility wins, and might pick up a stage.
5) If it doesn't work, he drops down from 4th which is no BFD.
The Marie Blanque has a 13% section which would be a great place to attack. He could even try going on an earlier climb, ala Landis.
I don't think Levi will necessarily do this. Not sure he's got the horses to pull it off, and I think he'll ride conservatively to protect his standing on GC, but wouldn't it be a great strategy?

I am also thinking that should be the strategy Discovery will use.
Why:
1) I don't think Contador will take 2.5' to Rasmussen in the TT.
2) I don't think Contador will take enough time on him in stage 16 if the stage ends as a mano a mano.
3) Leipheimer is close enough in the GC to overtake the Yellow Jersey if he is left in front.
4) Rabobank will have to answer an attack from Leipheimer and that can quickly break Rasmussen's team. If Discovery accomplishes that early they can then repeat the same strategy on the Aubisque on an isolated Rasmussen. All Contador has to do is wait for Rasmussen to be too tired to respond to a quick burst like the ones he launched today.
5) I don't think Leipheimer can win it all but he will be the master piece of an eventual win by his teammate.

I think Astana and mainly Vino will launch the first attacks, Levi has to make sure he stays with them. Stage 16 should be a not to be missed piece of racing. Today way great on the last climb but Wednesday should be a CLASSIC.

roadgator 07-23-07 06:55 PM

yeah, i was talking up the levi-contador attack yesterday, but today's downhill finish was arguably not the day to unleash it.

I'm sure this thought has crossed Brunyeel's mind, but the question of if the inter-team politics and Levi's ego can handle it.

Barring chicken has a meltdown, Contador is the only man left who can beat him.

aham23 07-23-07 08:43 PM

it appears that levi lacks a certain something. the ability to attack, to speed up a hill, to gut out a climb, and maybe some balls. he talked and talked and talked about his move. blah blah blah. later.

maalea 07-23-07 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aham23 (Post 4915084)
it appears that levi lacks a certain something. the ability to attack, to speed up a hill, to gut out a climb, and maybe some balls. he talked and talked and talked about his move. blah blah blah. later.


In the past that was Landis' issue, I remember Robbie Ventura (Floyd's coach) saying during last years tour, that was the biggest thing they worked on during training.

Maybe Levi should have hired him.

serpico7 07-23-07 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by same time (Post 4912190)
If he does, it'll be to soften up Rasmussen/Rabobank for Contador. It won't be Levi's decision, it'll be team orders. Discovery has GOT to be riding for Contador now, not Levi.

JB said as much after the stage, saying that Levi is in contention for third place, but that Contador is their best shot at the yellow jersey. The question is whether Levi will be a good teammate and sacrifice himself, and potentially a third place finish, for the team.

vic32amg 07-23-07 09:59 PM

Levi is coward. the guy has no confidence. and is completely crazy.

In the alps when asked why he's not attacking " oh I'm waiting for the Pyrenees those are much more difficult, it' a long race"

That's like me sayin, oh I can't hang at these 6-7 percent 10 mile climbs but when we get to the 8-9 percent 15 mile climb i'm going to attack," YEAH right LEVI!!!!

vic32amg 07-23-07 10:07 PM

http://i16.tinypic.com/6czxvet.jpg

marqueemoon 07-23-07 11:04 PM

Well Popo has to be tired of doing it by now.

reef58 07-24-07 08:07 AM

Climbers do prefer steeper grades to attack on. The power to weight advantage is a bigger factor with the steeper slopes. I think Levi is hanging on for dear life therefore unable to attack. We were all wondering why Evans didn't attack. Now we know.

Richard

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic32amg (Post 4915664)
Levi is coward. the guy has no confidence. and is completely crazy.

In the alps when asked why he's not attacking " oh I'm waiting for the Pyrenees those are much more difficult, it' a long race"

That's like me sayin, oh I can't hang at these 6-7 percent 10 mile climbs but when we get to the 8-9 percent 15 mile climb i'm going to attack," YEAH right LEVI!!!!


silver bullet 07-24-07 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 4909432)
The Marie Blanque has a 13% section which would be a great place to attack.

The chances of Levi riding away on a 13% section are about as high as Vinokourov winning the TdF this year.

GV27 07-24-07 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aham23 (Post 4915084)
it appears that levi lacks a certain something. the ability to attack, to speed up a hill, to gut out a climb, and maybe some balls. he talked and talked and talked about his move. blah blah blah. later.

LOL - yeah, like on Mt. Ventoux last year where he was dropped by the entire field. Only two guys were back with him and he was sucking their wheels. Oh wait.....do I have something backwards there?

He's a steady climber. That's just how it is. He probably won't win this year, but he's put in a great Tour and has done well. A lot of guys have won the Tour with that exact style in the mountains. Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain come immediately to mind. That's 10 tours right there. The last time a pure climber won was Marco Pantani. In less than a year he was popped for doping. That was the year before the arrival of Super-Lance.

All I can do is laugh at guys who think that pro cycling is only the Tour de France and the only success in cycling is to win that one race. Actually I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. Levi's one of the best American cyclists of all time and I keep hearing "he sucks, he's a clown". Yeah - uh-huh. It's Super-Lance or nothing, right? 95% of the pro peloton would LOVE to have his palmeres. He's one of only three Americans to captain a major European team and not subsequently get popped for doping (other two being Greg LeMond and Bobby Julich). If he didn't focus so hard on the Tour he certainly could take out one of the other Grand Tours. He's won several smaller ProTour stage races.

I bet most of the folks chiming in with this clown crap have never even heard of Andy Hampsten. No Tour win. He must have been a nobody.

merlinextraligh 07-24-07 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GV27 (Post 4918271)
Levi's one of the best American cyclists of all time and I keep hearing "he sucks, he's a clown". Yeah - uh-huh. It's Super-Lance or nothing, right? 95% of the pro peloton would LOVE to have his palmeres. He's one of only three Americans to captain a major European team and not subsequently get popped for doping (other two being Greg LeMond and Bobby Julich). If he didn't focus so hard on the Tour he certainly could take out one of the other Grand Tours. He's won several smaller ProTour stage races.

I bet most of the folks chiming in with this clown crap have never even heard of Andy Hampsten. No Tour win. He must have been a nobody.


I'd agree that Leipheimer gets critcized unfairly, simply because he's not the dominant Grand Tourer rider that Armstrong was.

However, I think it's arguable whether Leipheimer is "one of the best American Cyclists of All Time" Deffinitely top ten, but not at the very top.

Off hand, I'd have to put Armstrong, Lemond, Hampsten, Hamilton, Landis (setting aside drug issues), and Phinney ahead of him. Then I think you could argue about where he fits around Julich, Hincapie, and Zabriskie.

justindprice 07-24-07 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic32amg (Post 4915664)
Levi is coward. the guy has no confidence. and is completely crazy.

In the alps when asked why he's not attacking " oh I'm waiting for the Pyrenees those are much more difficult, it' a long race"

That's like me sayin, oh I can't hang at these 6-7 percent 10 mile climbs but when we get to the 8-9 percent 15 mile climb i'm going to attack," YEAH right LEVI!!!!


That has got to be one of the dumbest things i've heard so far. Take a look at Moreau, Valverde, and Iban Mayo- all who attacked and were big men in the alps... and where are they in the GC standing right now? The Tour is a battle of attrition - knowing where and when to spend energy in attacks and breakaways. Granted, levi does not have the acceleration like rasmussen and contador in the mtns but that doesnt negate his status as a strong rider. This has been his best year in the tour so far... If he has the opportunity to take time on evans especially before the final TT he'll go for it tomorrow to try to earn a podium spot.

aham23 07-24-07 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GV27 (Post 4918271)
LOL - yeah, like on Mt. Ventoux last year where he was dropped by the entire field. Only two guys were back with him and he was sucking their wheels. Oh wait.....do I have something backwards there?

He's a steady climber. That's just how it is. He probably won't win this year, but he's put in a great Tour and has done well. A lot of guys have won the Tour with that exact style in the mountains. Bernard Hinault and Miguel Indurain come immediately to mind. That's 10 tours right there. The last time a pure climber won was Marco Pantani. In less than a year he was popped for doping. That was the year before the arrival of Super-Lance.

All I can do is laugh at guys who think that pro cycling is only the Tour de France and the only success in cycling is to win that one race. Actually I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. Levi's one of the best American cyclists of all time and I keep hearing "he sucks, he's a clown". Yeah - uh-huh. It's Super-Lance or nothing, right? 95% of the pro peloton would LOVE to have his palmeres. He's one of only three Americans to captain a major European team and not subsequently get popped for doping (other two being Greg LeMond and Bobby Julich). If he didn't focus so hard on the Tour he certainly could take out one of the other Grand Tours. He's won several smaller ProTour stage races.

I bet most of the folks chiming in with this clown crap have never even heard of Andy Hampsten. No Tour win. He must have been a nobody.

you make the tour your main goal. you talk about being a top GC guy. you talk about the podium. you talk about making a move in pyrenees. then you dont or cant, so you get critcized. not that levi has dont this. i'm just saying, i'm not saying. later.


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