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Old 07-24-07, 07:12 AM   #1
Blaireau
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Evans on Astana

Did you guys see the Evans clip on velonews? This is after yesterday's stage. Asked about Vino's victory Evan said he thought Astana just lost its chance to win the Tour.
That's what I thought. I thought Vino's charge up front after having lost nearly half an hour the day before was selfish. He could have been out there helping his team, helping Kloeden.
Instead he indulged in a stage victory that was made possible only because of his being out of contention for the GC...
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Old 07-24-07, 08:43 AM   #2
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I don't think there's much he could have done for Kloden yesterday. Did you see Rasmussen and Contador flying up that mountain? It was like shot Contador out of a canon. It would have made no difference if Vino was there with Kloden, they still wouldn't have hung on.

Besides, at this point a stage win like that is bigger than getting Kloden on the podium.
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Old 07-24-07, 08:52 AM   #3
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Vino pretty much single handedly got the Kazakh sponsors together to bring Astana to life. I'm not surprised it is the Vino show on that team 24/7. Not really fair to Kloden and perhaps they gave up a chance to win the tour with Kloden, but he had to know the score when he joined Astana.
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Old 07-24-07, 08:53 AM   #4
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I don't think there's much he could have done for Kloden yesterday.

Besides, at this point a stage win like that is bigger than getting Kloden on the podium.
I'm not so sure about that. Rasmussen had his whole team working for him. I've heard that Vino and Kloden don't get along, and I'm sure there is a clash of egos there. Vino is a proud man and I don't think he likes playing second fiddle to Kloden. Stage wins are important for Astana. Obviously someone decided that they are more important than the GC. Who is that someone? That's up for debate. Vino or the team manager?
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Old 07-24-07, 08:55 AM   #5
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I wonder when Evans is going to talk about his own performance. He talks a lot about others.
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Old 07-24-07, 08:57 AM   #6
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Vino is the boss...he can do what he wants....I am sure they will fire him when they don't like what he is doing....until then he is the boss....he can do what he likes...
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Old 07-24-07, 09:06 AM   #7
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I do think that a podium spot for Astana would be better than a stage win from someone out of contention for the GC.

I guess Astana is Vino's baby, and therefore he is free to look out for himself instead of his teamantes. I hope it changes tomorrow....

That being said, it is true that Kloden doesn't inspire much confidence as of right now. I hope that too, changes tomorrow....
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Old 07-24-07, 09:08 AM   #8
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I'm not so sure about that. Rasmussen had his whole team working for him. I've heard that Vino and Kloden don't get along, and I'm sure there is a clash of egos there. Vino is a proud man and I don't think he likes playing second fiddle to Kloden. Stage wins are important for Astana. Obviously someone decided that they are more important than the GC. Who is that someone? That's up for debate. Vino or the team manager?
But what it really boils down to is whether or not Kloden could have held Rasmussen's or Contador's wheel when they took off, even if he had had a couple more teammates with him up to that point, including Vino. I don't think he could have.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:09 AM   #9
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I don't think kloeden ever really had a chance of winning after his tailbone problems and his suboptimal tt. remember, he's got pretty severe knee problems which made it impossible for him to follow the other gc contenders on stage 13.
according to him, he was quite pleased with yesterdays stage. he managed to stay with evans. the time distance on contador and rasmussen was already too big before yesterdays stage to be able to win the tour this year ("Dennoch bin ich ganz zufrieden, dass ich auf die unmittelbaren Gegner keine Zeit einbüßen musste. Die beiden Spitzenreiter fahren ja bereits außer Reichweite." www.andreas-kloeden.com).

vino's move wasn't selfish, it was an opportunity for astana to get another stage victory. he wouldn't have been able to stay with the gc contenders up unto the last climb anyway.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:14 AM   #10
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Offhand I am not expecting Vino to do other than what he's done, which seems to be "feed his ego."

However, Kloden pretty much knew that -- or should have known this could happen -- when he signed on. And if he can't get the team to line up behind him and support him for a go at the MJ, that is partly Vino's fault but also Kloden's failure to get his own team to work for him.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:16 AM   #11
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I do think that a podium spot for Astana would be better than a stage win from someone out of contention for the GC.

I guess Astana is Vino's baby, and therefore he is free to look out for himself instead of his teamantes. I hope it changes tomorrow....

That being said, it is true that Kloden doesn't inspire much confidence as of right now. I hope that too, changes tomorrow....

But it wasn't just "someone out of contention for the GC." It was the guy who was billed as the hands-down favorite before the start. Then he crashed hard, got sixty-some stitches, and toughed it out. Then he rode a lights out time trial. Then he blew up. Then he rode another lights out stage yesterday. That's a lot of exciting drama! He's got it in him to win the final time trial, and I wouldn't totally discount the possibility of him winning another stage in addition to that. Three or four stage wins in one tour by the same rider, I'd have to say, would be bigger than a podium spot for one guy. It's even bigger that it's Vino with his "celebrity" factor.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:26 AM   #12
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But what it really boils down to is whether or not Kloden could have held Rasmussen's or Contador's wheel when they took off, even if he had had a couple more teammates with him up to that point, including Vino. I don't think he could have.
Maybe not, but he might not have lost as much time as he did had Vino helped him up....
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Old 07-24-07, 09:31 AM   #13
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I personally feel no sympathy for Kloden. He could have stayed with T-mobile under Stapleton's management and been the clear team leader for Le Tour. But instead, he did not want to race under such scrutinizing conditions.

Plus: Kloden did not have it yesterday. What was Vino going to do? Sit back, keep on trying to pace Kloden only to have Kloden tell him to slow down a bit? Also - this is Vino's last Tour. He is done, and he wanted a moment in the sun. One last moment to relish the fans and the Tour. Quite frankly, Vino is one of the reasons this Tour has been so fun to watch.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:31 AM   #14
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But it wasn't just "someone out of contention for the GC." It was the guy who was billed as the hands-down favorite before the start. Then he crashed hard, got sixty-some stitches, and toughed it out. Then he rode a lights out time trial. Then he blew up. Then he rode another lights out stage yesterday. That's a lot of exciting drama! He's got it in him to win the final time trial, and I wouldn't totally discount the possibility of him winning another stage in addition to that. Three or four stage wins in one tour by the same rider, I'd have to say, would be bigger than a podium spot for one guy. It's even bigger that it's Vino with his "celebrity" factor.

From a pr and exposure point of view, I agree with you.
But no matter what, and even if he wins more stages, Vino's tour will have been a big disappointment considering that he was the major favorite to win the whole race. Its really too bad about that crash on stage 5 ...
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Old 07-24-07, 09:36 AM   #15
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Vino pretty much single handedly got the Kazakh sponsors together to bring Astana to life. I'm not surprised it is the Vino show on that team 24/7. Not really fair to Kloden and perhaps they gave up a chance to win the tour with Kloden, but he had to know the score when he joined Astana.
Vino wins that stage, gets the air time and lifts spirits. There is an Astana next year. He doesn't and even if Kloden makes the podium and there may not be. Having both contenders crash badly during the Tour really hurt. Having at elast some good stages will remind those back home that this is a team that can win.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:39 AM   #16
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From a pr and exposure point of view, I agree with you.
But no matter what, and even if he wins more stages, Vino's tour will have been a big disappointment considering that he was the major favorite to win the whole race. Its really too bad about that crash on stage 5 ...
Definitely. But it would still have been a big disappointment even if Kloden got on the podium (unless he won). Might as well get some wins and publicity and secure sponsorship, which it sounds like he has done.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:40 AM   #17
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I'm not so sure about that. Rasmussen had his whole team working for him. I've heard that Vino and Kloden don't get along, and I'm sure there is a clash of egos there. Vino is a proud man and I don't think he likes playing second fiddle to Kloden. Stage wins are important for Astana. Obviously someone decided that they are more important than the GC. Who is that someone? That's up for debate. Vino or the team manager?
You've heard?
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Old 07-24-07, 09:46 AM   #18
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Time to brush up on your reading.



Man this is an obsession with you... Its ok, you were wrong about Rasmussen.....get over it

This is a book written for the American market, and I think you would indeed be well advised to read it, before lecturing the rest of us on the Tour and race strategy.... Also work on your French spelling skills. Or better yet quit trying to write in French in a public forum....

From now on I'll spare myself the ordeal of reading your pronouncements and attempts at Lording over everyone: you are back on the ignore list !!!

Au revoir!!
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Old 07-24-07, 09:58 AM   #19
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I've heard that Vino and Kloden don't get along

Where'd you hear that? Frankie Andreu said something similar last night and I wonder if there's a source for this or if it's just a rumor. I always thought that the reason Kloeden (and Kessler) joined Astana was because he and Vino had hit it off at T-Mobile. I like to think they're tight.
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