Cassave

Dubbayoo

You keep harping on EPO like it's the only thing a cyclist would use. Does the name Patrik Sinkewitz mean anything to you? He tested positive for testosterone. A year's supply is about $100. How many Cat 3's can't afford that?

SSP

There are plenty of PED's besides EPO. You asserted that no Cat 5's are "doping". You may be correct with respect to EPO, but you are undoubtedly wrong (and, very naive) regarding doping in general.

As others have pointed out, it's easy to obtain HGH, 'roids, etc.

USAZorro

If confirmed true, this is truly a sad day. While I can't say I have been pulling for him in this Tour, he sure helped make things interesting and entertaining.

I'm still a bit concerned about the actions being taken before the B samples have been independently tested. True, it's nearly certain the results will be the same, but if they're not, an irreparable injustice will have been done.

Looking forward a bit further, I think that the only way to clean things up will be for all riders to provide samples after each stage, and in the event that a situation like this occurs, and 'B' sample testing confirms a positive, the samples for the other riders on the team should also be similarly tested for each of the race stages. If more than a rogue rider is doping, penalties should be imposed on the respective DS's also.

While I'm loathe to accuse individuals based on hearsay and circumstantial evidence, it seems that some DS's have been in charge of multiple teams that have had multiple adverse findings.

On the other hand, I think it's fair to ask how entertaining will the cycling be if doping is completely eradicated? The result may be a three week wheel-suck-fest - which could kill the sport as quickly as continued doping.

Devil

I worship the ground that Melissa Theuriau walks on. After that, I worship the woman herself.

Devil

She is a French TV news chick. She used to be an anchor but she hosts some kind of investigative reporting show now. I want her to have my children.

BigSean

Steroids are pretty inexpensive and easy to obtain. Many people have a win at all costs attitude. Im sure there is plenty around at the local races.

Ernesto Schwein

C'mon people, get a grip. What is a Tour without one or two doping scandals?

merlinextraligh

I'll grant you that its highly unlikely that someone is taking PED's because they need them to get from Cat 5 to a level that they can be competitive as a 4. That doesn't mean that some people new to the sport, and hoping to rise through the Categories quickly aren't already using some form of PED's when they do their first race.

That prescritipion thing sure has kept steroids out of sports.

As for knowledge of how to use EPO, and equipment. You need a needle and a portable centrifuge if you want to be careful ( but you don't even need that given that you're not subject to Hematacrit level) The knowledge of how to use it is all available on the internet.

People race Cat 5 on $7,000 bikes, with SRMs, and Zipps with Dugast tubulars. Limited resources does not appear to be a problem for many.


Obviously, the number of Cat 5's using any drugs would likely be deminimis, and more likely the drugs being used are steroids by guys who are using them more to look buff, than to improve their riding. But I think its naive to believe that of the 10,000 or more riders in Cat4 and 5 is no one is using something.

timmhaan

yes. i was first given the opportunity to get steriods when i was a 16 year old working at a gym part time after school. i didn't even try to seek it out, one day someone just casually asked me how my workouts were going and if i was interested in seeing faster results. i never did, because it wasn't important to me, but i always wonder if it was that easy for me - it's gotta be just as easy for many other people.

Devil

Apparently, Vino is blaming the test result on his crash. He says he didn't do it. Right.

https://www.velonews.com/tour2007/new...s/12915.0.html

deyendznyr

Did you take roids, EPO, HGH, whatever as a cat 5? Do you know any cat 5's who did? Or are you basing this on pure assumption that there must be some Cat 5 out there who's shooting up with something.

How long are most cat 5 races?
If you need PED to handle that, you're in trouble and should quit bike racing ASAP. Just about every Cat 5 I have seen is very green about racing. Vast majority of them don't have a training plan or a coach. But they'll posses the know how to dope?

I think a lot of people don't understand the complexity in taking EPO or blood doping. Sure taking roids isn't as hard, or testosterone, but they don't provide the advantages for endurance atheletes that EPO and blood doping do.

Like I said earlier, if you need EPO or to blood dope to get to Cat 3, you'll never survive there or get any higher. Why dope if you can only get to cat 3? It doesn't make sense.

ericcox

+1. And as pointed out in a thread on another forum, there are actually online communities that provide instructions on how to dope yourself with epo, testosterone, and HGH. HGH in particular is easy to get at aging clinics. I don't know any cyclists on dope -- I am just now getting back to racing -- but I did know two guys in college who used steroids just to improve their appearance. And yes, I know they did because I watched them do it. At least, they were injecting their asses with something.

ryanhulce

"But the test used was validated by WADA (World Anti Doping Agency), and so the test is credible."

There is nothing credible about WADA, or any of the other doping agencies. I thought they weren't suppose to release names, and such tell the B Sample was tested?

My guess is he is guilty, but I won't jump on the guilty bandwagon until more info is made public. The french labs have proved themself less than accurate.

Of course why Vino worked with Michele Ferrari any longer was a bonehead move. Also his team shouldn't have let him work with a known doper.

Either way this is not good for cycling.

Ernesto Schwein

This is just about my position. I've really been enjoying the Tour so much this year I totally forgot about BF. The only thing I am really concerned about is the whole witch-hunt media-circus paradigm that has to totally make any young athlete with more than 3 brain cells thing twice about even getting into Pro cycling. Anyone with any sense plays football (thats soccer). It is natural selection, the advent of radios and the shaky risk/benefit ratio has lowered the IQ of the peloton.

SunSwingsLow

SO i just got done re-reading Vinos victory interview from the TT. Disgusting.

ericcox

Holy understatement, Batman! ""We have suspended him and sent him home. He is positive, and that is not a good thing." -- Astana team manager Marc Biver.

ericy

This picture is not performance enhancing .

DocRay

he had a tooth removed to help with breathing and water intake.

indygreg

+1

You are right.

Now, I agree that a doping Cat 5 will not be a cat 5 for long, but I am sure they exist.

Great points above about the use of this stuff across the board. I went to a concert last summer that had a young crowd (15-22 mainly I would guess). Guys that were obviously in high school were sporting bodies that just do not happen at the age without help. I knew many high school athletes when I was in HS (86-90) that were great athletes, had a great body type and worked out for literally hours a day in the summer and at least an hour or two during the school year . . . as much as you could. They took amino acids and drank protein shakes, etc. They were not even half as big as these kids here.

It is happening in high schools and colleges around the country. Many of these kids do not even play sports. It is happening in the hip hop community (look at many of the stars).

caloso

Ahem. To go from Cat 5 to Cat 4 all you need to do is start 10 races. You could get blown off the back and pulled by the refs in every single one of them and they'll still send you your Cat 4 sticker.

gurana

Seriously. I went to a highschool with a fairly good sports program (nationally ranked consistently in the top 10 or something.) I'd be lying if I said I didn't have any friends that openly admited they were 'jucin' or whatever it is they called it. I guess this just betrays my naivety, but I was honestly shocked to find that out. I'd also be lying if I said I didn't consider it for myself, at least at some level. In fact, the only reason I joined the lacrosse team was because it was a smaller program and I could make the team (even though I had never played before). I wanted to play a more mainstream sport like baseball or football, and at the time it seemed like the only way to do that was to bring myself up to every one else's level by doing what every one else was apparently doing.

gurana

I guess I know what I'm doing next summer! Cat 4, here I come! (btw, why do I want to be a cat 4? I'm not even sure I fully understand what that means)

caloso

Mostly so you can say that you're not a Cat 5. Or you could sandbag. We had a long discussion about it a couple of weeks ago.

Devil

David Millar's reaction is worth watching and hearing. Check it out: https://www.velonews.com/vntv/