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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jinker's Avatar
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    Proposals to clean up tour

    Let's put them all here.

    My idea:

    Non commercial teams. Amateur cycling clubs are invited to put forth a team. Team expenses and rider salaries are covered by the tour. Every team gets the same budget. Every rider gets the same salary. Teams and riders may not accept $$ sponsorships or other salaries while on a tour team. In kind sponsorships of equipment and services come out of the team budget to keep the playing field level.

    Medical services are provided by tour doctors.

    Sponsors may sponsor the whole tour. Provide money for ads, bikes/equipment for riders.

    Make being invited to participate in the tour a huge honor. If a rider/team cheats, it's a huge DIShonor. Teams can be punished by ejecting them from the tour, and not asking them to participate for a number of years.

    Any windfalls from winning come from personal sponsorships after a rider is finished their riding career. If they get caught cheating, this will likely evaporate completely.

  2. #2
    Senior Member gfrance's Avatar
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    My 'new' proposal is to test the riders endlessly: all riders before and after every stage. Off season weekly testing. If you want to ride on the Pro Tour, you will sacrifice all privacy. And have a "death penalty"...fail test = banned for life from the Pro Tour.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinker View Post
    Let's put them all here.

    My idea:

    Non commercial teams. Amateur cycling clubs are invited to put forth a team. Team expenses and rider salaries are covered by the tour. Every team gets the same budget. Every rider gets the same salary. Teams and riders may not accept $$ sponsorships or other salaries while on a tour team. In kind sponsorships of equipment and services come out of the team budget to keep the playing field level.

    Please name the division 3 NCAA champion for any sport in the last 5 years. The TDF is followed because it has the best. No one would care if the second best rode the same route. You are proposing second or third level riders and it would get the same level of interest that other second and third level competitions get.

  4. #4
    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    I said before the riders should only be allowed to be treated by approved doctors except in the case of an emergency. The doctors can be hired and paid for by the organizations through a tax paid by the riders.

    If the riders are caught going to any other doctor they are suspended.

    If a rider is caught doping all career earnings are seized.

    I know it is far fetched, and dope would be obtained in other ways, but it may give pause.

    Richard

  5. #5
    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    Last year was pretty good without Basso, Lance, Ullrich, and Vino.

    This year has been really good without Lance, Ullrich, Basso, and Landis.

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Please name the division 3 NCAA champion for any sport in the last 5 years. The TDF is followed because it has the best. No one would care if the second best rode the same route. You are proposing second or third level riders and it would get the same level of interest that other second and third level competitions get.

  6. #6
    Left OZ now in Malaysia jibi's Avatar
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    Or all riders could be asked to sign a "pledge"
    ---------------------------------------------------
    https://sites.google.com/site/imjibi/home

    Photos of present tour of South East Asia
    http://picasaweb.google.com/georgeidf50/southeastasia

  7. #7
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibi View Post
    Or all riders could be asked to sign a "pledge"
    hahaha.

  8. #8
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    My proposal is to let them dope. Should even out the playing field.
    i may have overreacted

  9. #9
    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    Yea really what is the big deal? The only thing that bugs me about that is the teams with the most $$$ will win because they can get the cutting edge dope.

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    My proposal is to let them dope. Should even out the playing field.

  10. #10
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    My proposal is to let them dope. Should even out the playing field.
    cue SNL clip

  11. #11
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Meaningful penalities against the Teams, DS, and other team management personel. They have the opportunity to observe and stop doping. They need to be given the incentive.

  12. #12
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    Proposal #1:
    Let them all dope, once they turn professional. You get to that stage, you know the risks and rewards.

    Proposal #2:
    1 month amnesty period announced in pro cycling. Admit to doping, you get to keep your previous wins, but also get a 1 year suspension. Anyone caught after the amnesty, banned for life.

    One thing is for certain, the drip drip of constant allegations has got to end. The integrity of the sport can make a comeback, but only after the cheaters are all washed out.

  13. #13
    Longing for a Tail Wind Stickney's Avatar
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    Let them use performance enhancing items.

    Aren't those super light carbon wheels marketed as being performance enhancing? I know I can't survive doing my job without my morning coffee, I think it enhances my performance, do I need to get tested?

    Plenty of people spend money seeing the latest actor/actress that has had their performance enhanced by surgery, why all the disdain for athletes? Sure, it would be grand to have our little ideal vision of cycling (or any other sport for that matter), but this is a grey world, there are, will, and always have been cheaters.

    Honestly, maybe sponsor pressure will make a difference. But until these cyclists start blowing the whistle on their teammates, I don't see how progress will be made.

  14. #14
    Punk Rock Lives Roughstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfrance View Post
    My 'new' proposal is to test the riders endlessly: all riders before and after every stage. Off season weekly testing. If you want to ride on the Pro Tour, you will sacrifice all privacy. And have a "death penalty"...fail test = banned for life from the Pro Tour.
    Not to be silly, but would it help to have a "drug division" in the TDF, where the riders IN THAT CLASS would not be tested, could take whatever drug they wanted, and be left alone? Then, by comparing their times and performance with the other riders (assuming those other weasels were monitored meaningfully enough that they took few, or zero, drugs) we could see exactly what the difference in performance was really all about?

    Or would the difference be so great, that it would make the TDF meaningless?

    roughstuff
    Electric car sales are on fire! :)

  15. #15
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    If doping is to be put to an end, the incentive for DS's to either help riders get away with it, or to turn a blind eye to it needs to be eliminated.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  16. #16
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roughstuff View Post
    Not to be silly, but would it help to have a "drug division" in the TDF, where the riders IN THAT CLASS would not be tested, could take whatever drug they wanted, and be left alone? Then, by comparing their times and performance with the other riders (assuming those other weasels were monitored meaningfully enough that they took few, or zero, drugs) we could see exactly what the difference in performance was really all about?

    Or would the difference be so great, that it would make the TDF meaningless?

    roughstuff
    you would have what the sport of bodybuilding has turned into.

    natural:


    "enhanced"

  17. #17
    Its Freakin HammerTime!!! C_Heath's Avatar
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    My proposal:

    Once The pos test comes in for said rider, said rider is not allowed in any sanctioned raced in the world. Not even a pickup race down at the local club.

    That would help.

  18. #18
    DocRay
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan View Post
    "enhanced"
    tiny testicles

  19. #19
    Let's Pound Scout Sniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfrance View Post
    My 'new' proposal is to test the riders endlessly: all riders before and after every stage. Off season weekly testing. If you want to ride on the Pro Tour, you will sacrifice all privacy. And have a "death penalty"...fail test = banned for life from the Pro Tour.
    +1 In addition I would add that penalties be exacted on the rider's team and DS as well.

    OR... just screw it and let the dudes just dope. At this point I'm so jaded that I go on the assumption that they're all doing it and I really don't care anymore.
    "What makes a great endurance athlete is the ability to absorb potential embarrassment, and to suffer without complaint. I was discovering that if it was a matter of gritting my teeth, not caring how it looked, and outlasting everybody else, I won. It didn't seem to matter what sport it was--in a straight-ahead, long-distant race, I could beat anybody. If it was a suffer-fest, I was good at it."
    - Lance Armstrong, My Journey back to Life

  20. #20
    DocRay
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roughstuff View Post
    Not to be silly, but would it help to have a "drug division" in the TDF, where the riders IN THAT CLASS would not be tested, could take whatever drug they wanted, and be left alone? Then, by comparing their times and performance with the other riders (assuming those other weasels were monitored meaningfully enough that they took few, or zero, drugs) we could see exactly what the difference in performance was really all about?

    Or would the difference be so great, that it would make the TDF meaningless?
    This is already in action in another sport, it's called the NFL.

    The average life expectancy of an NFL player is 55 years.

  21. #21
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocRay View Post

    The average life expectancy of an NFL player is 55 years.
    is that true? i'm not surprised at all, but still...yikes!

  22. #22
    Duathlete indygreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan View Post
    is that true? i'm not surprised at all, but still...yikes!

    It is short, but there are many factors.
    This is mainly based on the earlier years of the NFL. Those guys were shot up with anything to get them out there one more play.
    Secondly, many NFL players (especially years ago) are not in good shape at all. Many are just fat and strong. They get fatter and weaker when they stop playing. Many are hurting and on all kinds of painkillers or worse.
    Thirdly, many older players have no health insurance to speak of and do not get treatment they should.
    Lastly, Suicide is not all that uncommon with the hurting old broke players

    None of this is to say NFLers do not dope and cyclist do . . . NFL's clearly did at some level and clearly still do at some level.
    Run, Bike, Run.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
    Last year was pretty good without Basso, Lance, Ullrich, and Vino.

    This year has been really good without Lance, Ullrich, Basso, and Landis.

    Richard
    You don't see the difference between not having 4 riders (one of whom is retired anyway) vrs excluding basically all pro riders? That is like saying college football did not miss one college being on suspension vrs eleminating all of division 1 and 2.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Pinyon's Avatar
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    I think that unless you penalize the sponsors and coaches too, that little will happen. You fine Astana and pull all of their commercial exposure, but still make them pay for it...ban some coaches for a few years or even life, and it will change fast. The athlete has less to lose over the short-term than the sponsors and coaches. Most of the riders know on some level that they cannot ride forever, but you punish the money sponsors, or make a few carreer coaches go back to flipping hamburgers...

  25. #25
    Duathlete indygreg's Avatar
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    Toughest question out there. IMHO there will always be people to replace those banned for years. There are so many riders just outside that top level. Banning people just takes someone out and puts someone else in who is just as likely to do it. Same with teams, coaches, and maybe even sponsors. The second you say you will fine sponsors they are gone. Why take the risk?

    The culture has to change and I do not know how that can happen. I do not think it is as shameful as others here think it is to be caught. It is more like . . . sucks to be you, you got caught (all while knowing they did it as well)
    Run, Bike, Run.

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