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Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

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Old 07-24-07, 12:43 PM   #1
Jinker
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Proposals to clean up tour

Let's put them all here.

My idea:

Non commercial teams. Amateur cycling clubs are invited to put forth a team. Team expenses and rider salaries are covered by the tour. Every team gets the same budget. Every rider gets the same salary. Teams and riders may not accept $$ sponsorships or other salaries while on a tour team. In kind sponsorships of equipment and services come out of the team budget to keep the playing field level.

Medical services are provided by tour doctors.

Sponsors may sponsor the whole tour. Provide money for ads, bikes/equipment for riders.

Make being invited to participate in the tour a huge honor. If a rider/team cheats, it's a huge DIShonor. Teams can be punished by ejecting them from the tour, and not asking them to participate for a number of years.

Any windfalls from winning come from personal sponsorships after a rider is finished their riding career. If they get caught cheating, this will likely evaporate completely.
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Old 07-24-07, 12:48 PM   #2
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My 'new' proposal is to test the riders endlessly: all riders before and after every stage. Off season weekly testing. If you want to ride on the Pro Tour, you will sacrifice all privacy. And have a "death penalty"...fail test = banned for life from the Pro Tour.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:15 PM   #3
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Let's put them all here.

My idea:

Non commercial teams. Amateur cycling clubs are invited to put forth a team. Team expenses and rider salaries are covered by the tour. Every team gets the same budget. Every rider gets the same salary. Teams and riders may not accept $$ sponsorships or other salaries while on a tour team. In kind sponsorships of equipment and services come out of the team budget to keep the playing field level.

Please name the division 3 NCAA champion for any sport in the last 5 years. The TDF is followed because it has the best. No one would care if the second best rode the same route. You are proposing second or third level riders and it would get the same level of interest that other second and third level competitions get.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:21 PM   #4
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I said before the riders should only be allowed to be treated by approved doctors except in the case of an emergency. The doctors can be hired and paid for by the organizations through a tax paid by the riders.

If the riders are caught going to any other doctor they are suspended.

If a rider is caught doping all career earnings are seized.

I know it is far fetched, and dope would be obtained in other ways, but it may give pause.

Richard
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Old 07-24-07, 01:22 PM   #5
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Last year was pretty good without Basso, Lance, Ullrich, and Vino.

This year has been really good without Lance, Ullrich, Basso, and Landis.

Richard

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Please name the division 3 NCAA champion for any sport in the last 5 years. The TDF is followed because it has the best. No one would care if the second best rode the same route. You are proposing second or third level riders and it would get the same level of interest that other second and third level competitions get.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:23 PM   #6
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Or all riders could be asked to sign a "pledge"
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Old 07-24-07, 01:25 PM   #7
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Or all riders could be asked to sign a "pledge"
hahaha.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:26 PM   #8
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My proposal is to let them dope. Should even out the playing field.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:30 PM   #9
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Yea really what is the big deal? The only thing that bugs me about that is the teams with the most $$$ will win because they can get the cutting edge dope.

Richard

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My proposal is to let them dope. Should even out the playing field.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:32 PM   #10
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My proposal is to let them dope. Should even out the playing field.
cue SNL clip
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Old 07-24-07, 01:33 PM   #11
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Meaningful penalities against the Teams, DS, and other team management personel. They have the opportunity to observe and stop doping. They need to be given the incentive.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:39 PM   #12
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Proposal #1:
Let them all dope, once they turn professional. You get to that stage, you know the risks and rewards.

Proposal #2:
1 month amnesty period announced in pro cycling. Admit to doping, you get to keep your previous wins, but also get a 1 year suspension. Anyone caught after the amnesty, banned for life.

One thing is for certain, the drip drip of constant allegations has got to end. The integrity of the sport can make a comeback, but only after the cheaters are all washed out.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:41 PM   #13
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Let them use performance enhancing items.

Aren't those super light carbon wheels marketed as being performance enhancing? I know I can't survive doing my job without my morning coffee, I think it enhances my performance, do I need to get tested?

Plenty of people spend money seeing the latest actor/actress that has had their performance enhanced by surgery, why all the disdain for athletes? Sure, it would be grand to have our little ideal vision of cycling (or any other sport for that matter), but this is a grey world, there are, will, and always have been cheaters.

Honestly, maybe sponsor pressure will make a difference. But until these cyclists start blowing the whistle on their teammates, I don't see how progress will be made.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:46 PM   #14
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My 'new' proposal is to test the riders endlessly: all riders before and after every stage. Off season weekly testing. If you want to ride on the Pro Tour, you will sacrifice all privacy. And have a "death penalty"...fail test = banned for life from the Pro Tour.
Not to be silly, but would it help to have a "drug division" in the TDF, where the riders IN THAT CLASS would not be tested, could take whatever drug they wanted, and be left alone? Then, by comparing their times and performance with the other riders (assuming those other weasels were monitored meaningfully enough that they took few, or zero, drugs) we could see exactly what the difference in performance was really all about?

Or would the difference be so great, that it would make the TDF meaningless?

roughstuff
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Old 07-24-07, 01:48 PM   #15
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If doping is to be put to an end, the incentive for DS's to either help riders get away with it, or to turn a blind eye to it needs to be eliminated.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:55 PM   #16
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Not to be silly, but would it help to have a "drug division" in the TDF, where the riders IN THAT CLASS would not be tested, could take whatever drug they wanted, and be left alone? Then, by comparing their times and performance with the other riders (assuming those other weasels were monitored meaningfully enough that they took few, or zero, drugs) we could see exactly what the difference in performance was really all about?

Or would the difference be so great, that it would make the TDF meaningless?

roughstuff
you would have what the sport of bodybuilding has turned into.

natural:


"enhanced"
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Old 07-24-07, 01:59 PM   #17
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My proposal:

Once The pos test comes in for said rider, said rider is not allowed in any sanctioned raced in the world. Not even a pickup race down at the local club.

That would help.
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Old 07-24-07, 02:14 PM   #18
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"enhanced"
tiny testicles
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Old 07-24-07, 02:14 PM   #19
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My 'new' proposal is to test the riders endlessly: all riders before and after every stage. Off season weekly testing. If you want to ride on the Pro Tour, you will sacrifice all privacy. And have a "death penalty"...fail test = banned for life from the Pro Tour.
+1 In addition I would add that penalties be exacted on the rider's team and DS as well.

OR... just screw it and let the dudes just dope. At this point I'm so jaded that I go on the assumption that they're all doing it and I really don't care anymore.
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Old 07-24-07, 02:16 PM   #20
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Not to be silly, but would it help to have a "drug division" in the TDF, where the riders IN THAT CLASS would not be tested, could take whatever drug they wanted, and be left alone? Then, by comparing their times and performance with the other riders (assuming those other weasels were monitored meaningfully enough that they took few, or zero, drugs) we could see exactly what the difference in performance was really all about?

Or would the difference be so great, that it would make the TDF meaningless?
This is already in action in another sport, it's called the NFL.

The average life expectancy of an NFL player is 55 years.
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Old 07-24-07, 02:17 PM   #21
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The average life expectancy of an NFL player is 55 years.
is that true? i'm not surprised at all, but still...yikes!
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Old 07-24-07, 02:24 PM   #22
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is that true? i'm not surprised at all, but still...yikes!

It is short, but there are many factors.
This is mainly based on the earlier years of the NFL. Those guys were shot up with anything to get them out there one more play.
Secondly, many NFL players (especially years ago) are not in good shape at all. Many are just fat and strong. They get fatter and weaker when they stop playing. Many are hurting and on all kinds of painkillers or worse.
Thirdly, many older players have no health insurance to speak of and do not get treatment they should.
Lastly, Suicide is not all that uncommon with the hurting old broke players

None of this is to say NFLers do not dope and cyclist do . . . NFL's clearly did at some level and clearly still do at some level.
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Old 07-24-07, 02:34 PM   #23
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Last year was pretty good without Basso, Lance, Ullrich, and Vino.

This year has been really good without Lance, Ullrich, Basso, and Landis.

Richard
You don't see the difference between not having 4 riders (one of whom is retired anyway) vrs excluding basically all pro riders? That is like saying college football did not miss one college being on suspension vrs eleminating all of division 1 and 2.
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Old 07-24-07, 02:46 PM   #24
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I think that unless you penalize the sponsors and coaches too, that little will happen. You fine Astana and pull all of their commercial exposure, but still make them pay for it...ban some coaches for a few years or even life, and it will change fast. The athlete has less to lose over the short-term than the sponsors and coaches. Most of the riders know on some level that they cannot ride forever, but you punish the money sponsors, or make a few carreer coaches go back to flipping hamburgers...
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Old 07-24-07, 02:53 PM   #25
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Toughest question out there. IMHO there will always be people to replace those banned for years. There are so many riders just outside that top level. Banning people just takes someone out and puts someone else in who is just as likely to do it. Same with teams, coaches, and maybe even sponsors. The second you say you will fine sponsors they are gone. Why take the risk?

The culture has to change and I do not know how that can happen. I do not think it is as shameful as others here think it is to be caught. It is more like . . . sucks to be you, you got caught (all while knowing they did it as well)
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