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-   -   Vick vs. Vino: A study in contrasts (http://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/324818-vick-vs-vino-study-contrasts.html)

bac 07-24-07 05:37 PM

Vick vs. Vino: A study in contrasts
 
Today, both of these stories broke. Vino is busted for blood doping, while Vick is indicted for hosting a vicious dog fighting ring. Vino transfused someone elses blood into his body, while Vick participated in the sadistic and systematic torturing and killing of dogs purely for amusement purposes. I certainly don't think these are like issues, but I think you understand where I'm going.

For Vino, it's pure and TOTAL disgrace. For Vino, it's the loss of a year's worth of wages. For Vino, it's being fired, and the entire team (read: sponsor) will most likely leave the sport. For Vino, he will forever live a life of disgrace for cheating in a bike race.

For Vick, there's a slightly different story. Has he been fired from the Atlanta Falcons? No, in fact they are still paying him and want him to report to camp. Did the NFL or the Falcons do ANYTHING? Well, the Falcons did consider a 4 game suspension, but have now backed down from even that tiny little slap on the wrist.

I'm not stating that Vick will necessarily walk clean (although my money is on that very thing), but consider the different attitudes in sport for just one second. It's startling. Perhaps the most ironic part of this story is that given the total lack of doping controls in the NFL, you know Vick is doping also. I can't imagine that he has any moral problem with doping given the above. Great stuff. :(

... Brad

timhines 07-24-07 05:48 PM

Technically the Falcons were told not to do anything by the NFL commish. Vick won't play this year, in fact I would bet my year's pay that he won't play in Atlanta again.

gpelpel 07-24-07 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhines (Post 4922697)
Technically the Falcons were told not to do anything by the NFL commish. Vick won't play this year, in fact I would bet my year's pay that he won't play in Atlanta again.

Yes, but like many other criminals before he will promptly be hired by another NFL team once released by the Falcons.
In professional sports MONEY is more important than Honesty, Integrity, and Morality combined.

skinny 07-24-07 05:52 PM

Vick has been told not to report to training camp while the NFL determines what direction they will go in this. We will learn nothing more until after his initial hearing, when is that, thursday?

There really isn't any comparison here. Vick's alleged behaviors affected victims. The sport of cycling may be a victim of Vino's actions, but only philosophically.

VanceMac 07-24-07 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac (Post 4922619)
I'm not stating that Vick will necessarily walk clean (although my money is on that very thing)

No chance he walks clean. Unless there is a serious breakdown in the case, and Vick is cleared of all charges, he will not play a single game this season. And depending on what he ends up being convicted of, I think there is a possibility of him never playing in the NFL again. I was actually pleasantly surprised to hear the amount of outrage in the press and among the general public. This one isn't going away. (And neither is the NBA ref scandal.)

timhines 07-24-07 06:04 PM

It took this long to indict him because they didn't want this to be a witch hunt. I think they waited till they had the nail in the coffin before doing so.

and I agree, I even think he could pull some jail time, but someone would pick him up.

Ernesto Schwein 07-24-07 06:16 PM

I though you were talking about this Vick:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...mec05/vick.jpg

root11 07-24-07 06:29 PM

Vick was just working on his resume for the raiders job....

timhines 07-24-07 06:38 PM

Vic Mackey (sp?) is the man!

Bacciagalupe 07-24-07 06:52 PM

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

Cycling: 1st adverse finding = 2 yr ban + fine of 1 full year's salary (a new penalty), 2nd = lifetime ban
NFL: 1st adverse finding = 4 game suspension + fine of 25% of annual pay, 2nd = 8 game suspension, 3rd = out for the season. Also, no testing for HGH, and 8 stimulants (vs 40 for Olympic sports).

And the NFL apparently has the most "stringent" policies for any major US sport.

Is that enough of a contrast for you? ;)

cooker 07-24-07 06:58 PM

Vino cheated in cycling so cycling has come down hard on him. Vick's misdeeds were not in football, so it's not up to football to punish him unless he broke football rules, for example around gambling with his dog ring.

ryanhulce 07-24-07 07:02 PM

Vick screwed up on a human level not just a sporting one. Vick should never play football again. But I'm a member of PETA so what do I know? :)

Of course to stop dopers make it a lifetime ban? If you cheat your done....

Olden Crow 07-24-07 07:27 PM

Vick is accused of multiple serious felonies. Which means instead of jail time, he's facing the Penitentiary, in this particular case the Federal Pen. He gets out in let's say 4 years, and the State probably doesn't also charge him, but oh well he's now almost too old and slow to play in NFL.

bac 07-24-07 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe (Post 4923137)
Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

Cycling: 1st adverse finding = 2 yr ban + fine of 1 full year's salary (a new penalty), 2nd = lifetime ban
NFL: 1st adverse finding = 4 game suspension + fine of 25% of annual pay, 2nd = 8 game suspension, 3rd = out for the season. Also, no testing for HGH, and 8 stimulants (vs 40 for Olympic sports).

And the NFL apparently has the most "stringent" policies for any major US sport.

Is that enough of a contrast for you? ;)

Hey, according to the NFL, there is NO reliable test for HGH! :rolleyes:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11588.0.html

ttopaz 07-24-07 07:52 PM

Why would you insult Vino like that, comparing him to Vick!:eek:
Vick may be doping as well, but I'm sure Vino not torturing and killing dogs.

vpiuva 07-24-07 08:04 PM

Vick will never play in the NFL again.

Vino, unfortunately, will probably be too old to ride again, but he would be welcomed back

SunSwingsLow 07-25-07 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vpiuva (Post 4923694)
Vick will never play in the NFL again.

Vino, unfortunately, will probably be too old to ride again, but he would be welcomed back

Yep Vick is done in the NFL. Hes going to jail for a long time. He wasnt that good anyways. Good riddance you piece of trash.

and

As was stated earlier Vick did not cheat in his sport. He committed a terrible crime that I and 95% of the NFL will never forgive him for. Hes a piece of garbage that the NFL has tossed out as such.

Vino did no harm to another person/animal but he has probably dealt a final death blow to the sport. Where as Vicks action have had no negative impact on the game of football.

maddyfish 07-25-07 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSwingsLow (Post 4925743)

95% of the NFL will never forgive him for.

.

I don't believe that at all, I bet something in the range of 25% of NFL players think dog fighting is ok, it's all part of the hip hop "culture" Probably another 25% don't like dogfighting, but don't think it should be illegal.
Plus you've got a fair amount of Samoans in the NFL, and I believe dog fighting is legal there.
Of course any NFL players with a brain would hate dog fighting.

bac 07-25-07 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSwingsLow (Post 4925743)
Yep Vick is done in the NFL. Hes going to jail for a long time.

Do you remember the OJ trial? :eek:

My guess is that Vick walks with NO jailtime, and he's back in the NFL either this year, or next. Perhaps he'll spend his time off looking for the REAL dog torturer? :D

... Brad

indygreg 07-25-07 08:15 AM

I could not disagree more. People are nuts (I mean that in a good way) about the Vick thing. Protesting the league, protesting the Falcons and protesting Home Depot (the Falcons owner owns HD). I know people that have canceled their DirectTV NFL package because the league did not act fast enough. My father actually is trying to spend his own money putting up billboards in NFL cities with dead pit bulls with 'is the face of pro sports' (no place will do it). I will stop watching NFL and will stop doing Fantasy football if he plays this year.

Doping cyclist . . . I honestly see no disgrace at all here, but that is from a US perspective. It is expected.

Wait for both to play out . . . Vick has played his last game and he will get what he deserves.

bac 07-25-07 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indygreg (Post 4926067)
Wait for both to play out . . . Vick has played his last game and he will get what he deserves.

I HOPE you are correct, Greg.

... Brad

indygreg 07-25-07 08:20 AM

I hope I right too. This is a federal grand jury, not the knuckleheads who came up with the verdict on OJ.

If I am right and he gets what he deserves, then lets compare these two. One will be banned from cycling. One will be in jail and will have lost probably 50+ million dollars (between lost endorsements and contracts). That would make these not even friggen close. Nor should they be. One is a SICK MEAN crime and one is a guy doing what many others do in a sport.

SunSwingsLow 07-25-07 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac (Post 4926027)
Do you remember the OJ trial? :eek:

My guess is that Vick walks with NO jailtime, and he's back in the NFL either this year, or next. Perhaps he'll spend his time off looking for the REAL dog torturer? :D

... Brad


OJ was up against an incompetent LA County PD. Vick is up against teh FEDERAL government.

SunSwingsLow 07-25-07 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddyfish (Post 4925938)
I don't believe that at all, I bet something in the range of 25% of NFL players think dog fighting is ok, it's all part of the hip hop "culture" Probably another 25% don't like dogfighting, but don't think it should be illegal.
Plus you've got a fair amount of Samoans in the NFL, and I believe dog fighting is legal there.
Of course any NFL players with a brain would hate dog fighting.


I was refering to the fan base. Not the players.

indygreg 07-25-07 08:32 AM

I agree . . . many NFL players see nothing wrong with this (and they have said so). It shows how friggen clueless they are. And how many of our sports idols are pieces of crap that would not survive in the real world without going to jail.


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