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Old 07-25-07, 06:02 AM   #1
Grasschopper
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Does the Vino issue actually shock anyone?

I mean seriously...former To Mobile rider...who brought several other T Mobile riders and the big one...who of course had NOTHING to do with any of this I am sure...Walter Godefroot as a consultant/manager.

I am not at all suprised by this announcement and honestly had he won the TdF would have seriously questioned the victory.

Got to say I never wanted Vino to win but I did love him and his team in the race...for sure Astana made it fun to watch.

Now the big question...Vino just met with the leaders from his country and Astana inked a deal last week to sponsor the team for 10 more years...is that deal still good?
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Old 07-25-07, 06:06 AM   #2
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No.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:12 AM   #3
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I mean seriously...former To Mobile rider...who brought several other T Mobile riders and the big one...who of course had NOTHING to do with any of this I am sure...Walter Godefroot as a consultant/manager.

I am not at all suprised by this announcement and honestly had he won the TdF would have seriously questioned the victory.

Got to say I never wanted Vino to win but I did love him and his team in the race...for sure Astana made it fun to watch.

Now the big question...Vino just met with the leaders from his country and Astana inked a deal last week to sponsor the team for 10 more years...is that deal still good?
who's tdf win wouldn't be questionable?
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Old 07-25-07, 06:13 AM   #4
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Not at all.

Also point the finger at Mario Kummer. Along with Ullrich the only member of the 1996 Tour de France Telekom team not to have fessed up publicly (but fessed up to Biver). Until Kummer comes clean and tells all about his drugs past he should not be part of team management.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:14 AM   #5
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Vino was linked to Ferrari.

You do the math.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:14 AM   #6
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who's tdf win wouldn't be questionable?
In the past? Lemond.

Or do you mean this year? Evans.

And this is not an exhaustive list, just two names with no bad smell.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:16 AM   #7
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I am going to point fingers at all of them. Good old Walt was fully informed with what was going on at his former employer and to think otherwise is a joke...so maybe all he did was suggest doctors and lended his doping expierence...ok I will agree that may be the case.

I just read there is another positive...this time for T:E ratio from stage 11. So Hunter (stage winner), Rasmussen (Yellow Jersey) or one of 4 random riders. In honor of the NBA...anyone want to bet on the rider.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:17 AM   #8
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Vino was linked to Ferrari.

You do the math.
Agreed.

And, oh, btw, Lance was linked to Ferrari. You do the math.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:21 AM   #9
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, btw, Lance was linked to Ferrari. You do the math.
1+1 = 7 TdF wins??

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Old 07-25-07, 06:35 AM   #10
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Nope, and that is the REAL problem. It is just part of the sport at this time and that is not good.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:40 AM   #11
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In the past? Lemond.

Or do you mean this year? Evans.

And this is not an exhaustive list, just two names with no bad smell.
sorry, but i wouldn't bet on that. not anymore.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:43 AM   #12
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The only thing I'm shocked about is that it still elicits this much of a response from people.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:48 AM   #13
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sorry, but i wouldn't bet on that. not anymore.
For what it's worth Tom Boonen has just come out and said Evans is clean. The riders are much closer to the action than we are, and have an ear to the ground, so that's very good to hear.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:54 AM   #14
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Actually, oh wise Grasschopper, I am surprised. Granted, the testing regimes are nothing more than I.Q. tests -- you know WHEN it's going to happen, HOW it's going to happen, etc., etc., etc. so that you can prepare ahead of time. The testing regimes are practically designed to avoid catching people. How STUPID do you have to be to get caught up in this?

Not just Vino, but going back at least to Landis, I'm just surprised these people aren't smarter than this. Are people injecting them while they sleep? This is incredibly stupid.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:56 AM   #15
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For what it's worth Tom Boonen has just come out and said Evans is clean. The riders are much closer to the action than we are, and have an ear to the ground, so that's very good to hear.
we've heard all kinds of amends and people 'witnessing' somone else's innocence over and over again.
i'm sorry if evans is really clean, it's just that i have no reason to trust any of those riders. boonen saying evans is clean means nada.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:23 AM   #16
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Actually, oh wise Grasschopper, I am surprised. Granted, the testing regimes are nothing more than I.Q. tests -- you know WHEN it's going to happen, HOW it's going to happen, etc., etc., etc. so that you can prepare ahead of time. The testing regimes are practically designed to avoid catching people. How STUPID do you have to be to get caught up in this?

Not just Vino, but going back at least to Landis, I'm just surprised these people aren't smarter than this. Are people injecting them while they sleep? This is incredibly stupid.
I know where you are coming from...and I believe it is an IQ test...and the doctors are failing. Only inject Vino with VINO'S blood...and you don't get caught.

The T:E is another simple screw up IQ test. Keep the patch on for X min...woops I fell asleep or just forgot and wam you fail the test...or forget to take your proper epi and bam you fail the test.

Looks like Vino's stage 15 sample also failed...and they are saying we will hear today who the stage 11 failure is.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:42 AM   #17
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Agreed.

And, oh, btw, Lance was linked to Ferrari. You do the math.
Everyone linked to Ferrari is/was doping. Except Lance of course.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:43 AM   #18
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I know where you are coming from...and I believe it is an IQ test...and the doctors are failing. Only inject Vino with VINO'S blood...and you don't get caught.

The T:E is another simple screw up IQ test. Keep the patch on for X min...woops I fell asleep or just forgot and wam you fail the test...or forget to take your proper epi and bam you fail the test.

Looks like Vino's stage 15 sample also failed...and they are saying we will hear today who the stage 11 failure is.
Doctors are not doing this doping. This is another reason why doping is bad for sport. By mixing blood on transfusion, they could pass deadly diseases from one person to another -excellent way to die fast of Hepatitis B,C or HIV.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:50 AM   #19
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who's tdf win wouldn't be questionable?
Right. How many have been won "clean"? I'm guessing it's a REALLY low number.

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Old 07-25-07, 07:57 AM   #20
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Only inject Vino with VINO'S blood...and you don't get caught.
You wonder if the doc just got his bags mixed up. It just doesn't make sense to blood dope with blood that isn't your own. You know you'll be tested if you win, and you know you'll get caught.

... Brad
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Old 07-25-07, 07:59 AM   #21
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we've heard all kinds of amends and people 'witnessing' somone else's innocence over and over again.
i'm sorry if evans is really clean, it's just that i have no reason to trust any of those riders. boonen saying evans is clean means nada.
Actually we haven't. Riders know which teams dope and which don't. They chose which team to join partly on this basis. We have never 'witnessed' someone being said to be clean who turned out not to be.
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Old 07-25-07, 08:01 AM   #22
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You wonder if the doc just got his bags mixed up. It just doesn't make sense to blood dope with blood that isn't your own. You know you'll be tested if you win, and you know you'll get caught.

... Brad
I actually have to concede to DocRay here...if the injections are happening during the competition it likely isn't the doctors doing the injecting so there are plenty of mistakes to be made...what if a rider didn't properly clean the needle or tube after his buddy transfused? How much of a trace is needed to fail this test?

I think OP shows us doctors are clearly involved out of competition...

This is the same mistake that happened to Tyler right...injected from the wrong bag or used a machine, tube, needle that wasn't properly cleaned.
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Old 07-25-07, 08:16 AM   #23
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You wonder if the doc just got his bags mixed up. It just doesn't make sense to blood dope with blood that isn't your own. You know you'll be tested if you win, and you know you'll get caught.

... Brad
HI... doesnt make any sense. Wonder if somebody in the lab put a couple of drops of his/her own blood in the sample when opening the container.. well, if Vino is saying the thruth somebody put something in the samples, right? The other fact is that if vino puts his own blood they will see something wierd also because he will have too many red blood cells, well u can be creative and say that u trained in the mountains so the body made more red blood cells for you, but put somebody else's blood makes no sense, can u imagine if instead of a donator blood a blood of somebody with another group and RH is used? Scary stuff...

cya.
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Old 07-25-07, 08:20 AM   #24
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If you want to point fingers at management, then point them at Biver.
Is it just me, or does it seem every time Biver opens his mouth he seems completely out of the loop regarding what's really going on with his team. Like he doesn't even really know them that well?
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Old 07-25-07, 08:22 AM   #25
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HI... doesnt make any sense. Wonder if somebody in the lab put a couple of drops of his/her own blood in the sample when opening the container.. well, if Vino is saying the thruth somebody put something in the samples, right? The other fact is that if vino puts his own blood they will see something wierd also because he will have too many red blood cells, well u can be creative and say that u trained in the mountains so the body made more red blood cells for you, but put somebody else's blood makes no sense, can u imagine if instead of a donator blood a blood of somebody with another group and RH is used? Scary stuff...

cya.
The blood would still have to have been compatible. Random blood would have caused a bad reaction. So his father would have had to accidently cut himself and accidently drip his blood onto Vino's open wound.
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