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  1. #1
    Senior Member serpico7's Avatar
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    Should Cofidis resign from the Tour?

    "Moreni tested positive for testosterone after stage 11 of the Tour last Thursday, said Didier Simon, of cycling's world governing body, the UCI. He said it was for Cofidis to decide whether to pull its other riders from the Tour in the wake of Moreni's failed test." (from link)

    If Cofidis hasn't already decided to abandon, it seems they should be asked to leave. What's fair for Astana is fair for Cofidis, even if they are a French team. Enjoy that crow, French fans.

  2. #2
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
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    Sure. Why not at this point.

    It's about time the teams start taking some of the hit for their rider's behavior.

    And don't feed back any of this 'he was a rogue rider using PEDs or blood doping' junk, either. Until the teams, and therefore the sponsors, start feeling the pain to clean this stuff up, then it won't get cleaned up.

    If the teams aren't serious about it, they should start their own cycling league and let the riders dope until they all keel over.

  3. #3
    Senior Member serpico7's Avatar
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    Nevermind - looks like they already withdrew. But I don't get why withdrawal was at Cofidis' discretion, while Astana was asked to leave.

  4. #4
    Slow as Hell
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    edit: nm, you beat me to it

  5. #5
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serpico7 View Post
    Nevermind - looks like they already withdrew. But I don't get why withdrawal was at Cofidis' discretion, while Astana was asked to leave.
    i think it was the same thing. they asked astana to leave and they accepted. i don't think the entire team was forced to leave. someone correct me if i'm wrong...

  6. #6
    Slow as Hell
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    According to Velonews they were asked to leave. Also, they aren't asking for the B sample...

    link: http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/new...s/12930.0.html

  7. #7
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
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    Astana was offered the opportunity to leave. They accepted.

    It's basically the same as allowing an employee to "resign" from a job before they are fired. Save a little face, if any.

  8. #8
    Senior Member serpico7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dknight07 View Post
    According to Velonews they were asked to leave. Also, they aren't asking for the B sample...

    link: http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/new...s/12930.0.html
    Thanks. Sounds like exactly the same treatment. Thread finished.

  9. #9
    Left OZ now in Malaysia jibi's Avatar
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    They have gone

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/6916422.stm

    As a Brit this hits me badly

    I thought Brad would have the Saturday TT

    the End

    george
    ---------------------------------------------------
    https://sites.google.com/site/imjibi/home

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  10. #10
    iab
    iab is offline
    Senior Member iab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyLowe97 View Post

    If the teams aren't serious about it, they should start their own cycling league and let the riders dope until they all keel over.
    Actually, it started more because the Soviets were winning too many medals in the Olympics. But, more rules were established when riders were keeling over.

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...bbf68b861516de

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...5a7f0cb69d4913

    http://www.abcc.co.uk/Articles/DrgsTdeF.html

    and another quote

    Richie (1999) In his discussion of the emergence of bicycle racing in England in the second half of the nineteenth century shows how, from very early on, the sport was a heavily professionalized and commercialized enterprise and that
    (t)he use of the complex, expensive, new machine in the young sport tended to establish a functional economic, athletic, and social relationship between competitors, promoters and manufacturers...(512) These early bicycle races were staged by entrepreneurs as entertainments and were motivated by the potential for profit. For participants they were as much work as sport, with bicycle manufacturer/sponsors depending on their respective riders to perform well thus proving the superiority of their product. It was also important for bicycle companies to display the durability and reliability of their machines and so races were often extremely long and run over grueling terrain. This relationship between racers and commercial sponsorship came to define the economics of the sport not only on the professional level but also among amateurs. In its early years promoted products tended to be cycling related but, over time, came to include all manner of commodities including candy, sausage, flooring, air conditioners, super markets, automobiles, flooring, national
    lotteries and postal services, etc. Termed “team sponsors” they
    were, more accurately, advertisers trading public exposure for their product name in return for financial support.
    In part because physical demands were extreme * with riders both past and present often referred to as “hard men” * participants often come from the working classes of Europe and also, at least in its early days, of America. Whether correctly or incorrectly, cycling was perceived as a way of avoiding a future in the coal mines of northern France and Belgium or the olive groves of Italy and Spain. It is not surprising then that the use of medications that might ease the “days work” of a rider and maximize his earning potential became a common feature of this subculture with riders as early as the 1870's routinely using a variety of substances. Rabenstein documents how early bicycle racers employed “artificial stimulants. . . cognac, beer, wine and sparkling wine. . .
    kola. . . caffeine. . . nitroglycerine. . . sugar pieces containing ether.
    . .cocaine-injections. . . heroin. . . bay-rum drops and cola-essence”
    among other preparations. (1997: 1) The use of medications within the sport was extensive and routine. (see also Hoberman, 1992: 124; Hoberman,
    2003) In his autobiography, the American world champion Marshall
    “Major” Taylor commented in connection with an 1896 six-day race at Madison Square Garden that:
    On the way to the track one of my trainers gave me a glass of water into which he had dumped a powder which he claimed cost $65.00 an ounce, and which would allow me to ride without any sleep until the race was over. This was only the third day of the race. Later I found out also that this powder was nothing more than bicarbonate of soda, but it kept me going for the next eighteen hours without a wink of sleep. (1971:
    19)

    It is not what Taylor actually took that is of interest, but the matter of fact way in which he accepted, even in retrospect, what he believed to be a performance aid. So commonplace were they that, as Maso observes, during the 1930 Tour de France founder and organizer Henri Desgrange required participants to pay for their own “stimulants and doping.”
    (quoted in Ruediger Rabenstein from Benjo Maso, Het zweet der goden.
    Amsterdam, 1990: 192.)
    It was not, as Waddington (2000: 98) and others have observed, until the decade of the 1960's that the practice of doping was at all regulated or, for that matter, even viewed, as “unacceptable.” This taken-for-granted attitude toward doping products largely went unquestione d until the first modern documented death from amphetamines of the Danish rider K. E. Jensen during the 1960 Rome Olympic road race. Due of this death, the first tentative doping controls were instituted in 1961 in Belgium followed in 1965 by anti-doping laws. Similar laws took effect in
    1966 in Italy and France. It was, however, the death of the British rider Tommy Simpson on the ascent of Mt. Ventoux during the 1967 Tour de France that first provoked a public outcry against drug use in cycling. (Rabenstei n, 1997: 4) From this point forward, cycling has been periodically shaken by drug scandals the some of the most serious of which include the disqualification of Eddy Merckx during the 1969 Giro d’ Italia and of Michel Pollentier while leading the Tour de France in 1978, the discovery that the 1984 U.S. Olympic track squad had engaged in the practice * although not technically banned at the time * of blood doping, the dramatic Team Festina scandal during the 1998 Tour de France, and the expulsion of Marco Pantani for a high hematocrit level (see below) prior to the start of the penultimate stage of the 1999 Giro d’ Italia which he was leading.
    In the hot house environment of racing bicycle technology was pushed to increasing efficiency, as was the efficacy of performance enhancing substances. From the spurious concoctions of the late 19th century, to the amphetamines which characterized the post WWII era of Tom Simpson, cycling moved * as did other sports * to strength building drugs such as androgenic anabolic steroids and testosterone, adding the blood doping of the early 1980's and, beginning in the early 1990's, to new classes of drugs which began to make their way into the peleton. Two of these new substances that became been especially common among professional cyclists during this decade were human growth hormone (HGH) and erythropoie
    tin (EPO), both highly effective in enhancing performance.

    As has always been the case surrounding PES use, rumors abound concerning other substances said to be in circulation, some of these include IGF-1 (see Voet, 2001: 105) and Interluken (Voet, 2001: 128) both having effects similar to HGH and PFC (perfluorocarbon), a “synthetic blood” product that increases oxygen-carrying capacity, both still are classed as “experimental” by the pharmaceutical companies developing them. (see Wadler,1999)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibi View Post
    They have gone

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/6916422.stm

    As a Brit this hits me badly

    I thought Brad would have the Saturday TT

    the End

    george
    Yeah, tough luck for Wiggins.

    These comment are from uk.eurosport after the last TT.

    Briton Bradley Wiggins (fifth in stage 13 time trial won by Vinokourov):

    "I know that to put two minutes into me what power Vino would need and the effort he would have had to make and it didn't add up. At the time I was frightened of what I might say. I didn't want to accuse people because they had beaten me outright."

    Now's a good time for him to take out the flame thrower if he wishes.

  12. #12
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    Testosterone doping is much more simple than blood doping isn't it? That's why I'd understand if one team left and not the other. With blood doping it's almost certain to be the work of the team.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    Brings up a good point though. Here's a hypothetical:

    Somebody tests positive for something. ASO asks him to leave. He says no. ASO forces him out. Very next day his 'B' sample comes back negative. Do they let him back in if he's missed a day now? Food for thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dolomiti View Post
    Testosterone doping is much more simple than blood doping isn't it? That's why I'd understand if one team left and not the other. With blood doping it's almost certain to be the work of the team.
    Yes, its easier but blood doping would be done by a personal coach/doctor, not someone officially with the tieam...way too risky.
    Last edited by Dubbayoo; 07-25-07 at 02:53 PM.

  14. #14
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibi View Post
    They have gone

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/6916422.stm

    As a Brit
    this hits me badly

    I thought Brad would have the Saturday TT

    the End

    george
    Me too. Mr. Wiggins rode with heart, and for one glorious day he was a true hero to any fan of cycling (even though he didn't win the stage).
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

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