Rasmussen gone?
#276
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#277
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Well, think of it this way. Let's say you told your boss you were going to be in the Mexico City office for the month of June (remember, he's training and collecting a salary). However, you go to Florence instead. Not only that, but you lie to your boss and your customers about your whereabouts. Would you be surprised if your boss fired you the instant he found out?
<snip>
Personally, if he really did dope I think his only chance is to come clean, take a 2 year ban, and then get back into the sport.
<snip>
Personally, if he really did dope I think his only chance is to come clean, take a 2 year ban, and then get back into the sport.
That said, the fact that he went missing and was with "some as yet unidentified doctor" makes you wonder.
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Umm...yeah, just a "minor" rules violation...
Determined on the road requires that you submit to required drug tests...
After that, you may determine it on the road as much as you like...
He is a farking cheater, guilty with no chance of proving innocence...
Unless he can prove he took a wrong turn at "Albequirky..."
#279
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#280
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Reading some of the reactions from other riders, I'm really suprised. Some really damning words. It's almost as if this anti-doping thing isn't a charade. The riders now realize how serious this situation is, and instead of the code of silence of the last century, they're really pissed off at anyone who gets caught!
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...l07/jul26news3
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...l07/jul26news3
"Teams like Astana win by using un ethical means, taking all the publicity that belong to the clean riders and teams. We can't let that go by," he concluded.
The Quick.Step rider was lying on the massage table when he got the news about Vinokourov, as a text message on his mobile phone. "We have all worked so hard," he said, "we have had fantastic successes with this team, and Vinokourov helps throw all of that away."
"There are a lot of riders in his team whose contracts will expire at the end of the season," he stated to HLN.be. "Thanks to him they may also be living on the street. If a rider like him was in my team, I wouldn't hesitate to punch him in the face."
"We are not scared to talk about Rasmussen, only your grandmother would believe that you missed four doping controls by accident,"
#281
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The problem with this argument is that taking steroids is without a prescription is against the law. When he juiced, he was in fact commiting a crime.
#282
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Its difficult to compare NFL, MLB, and NBA drug use to sports like cycling and track & field. While being bigger, stronger, and faster is always an advantage, in football, baseball, and basketball the results of performance enhancing drugs aren't necessarily a direct advantage to performance in the sport. In cycling and T&F, the use has a direct recordable impact on the atheletes performance in that sport. In baseball, more pitchers have tested positive for steroid use than any other position. Primarily for recovery purposes. In football, being bigger and stronger doesn't necessarily translate to being a better player. Anybody remeber the colassal bust of Tony Mandarich?
Everyone seems to get all wrapped up emotionally into this issue of performance enhancing drugs. In the end we'll never know all of the atheletes who are doing it. But the sports will survive. They'll do what they can, but there will always be the cloud of suspicion.
#283
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#285
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Absolutely true. The point is how to dope without being detected and it seems that most of the riders manage to do it. That's why a friend told me that Discovery team deserves to win this Tour de France because during 7 years they were not detected doping !
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When Rasmussen was confronted with this information he confirmed to Theo de Rooy [team manager] he was at that moment in Italy," said Rabobank press officer Jacob Bergsma last night. "That was the reason De Rooy decided to get him out of the Tour and the team."
#288
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Most people know that their results are probably correct, but the attitude in the US is that if you are going to ruin someone over a result, you'd better be damned sure its accurate. If protocols are violated to get the result, it raises questions over the rest of the result. Thats just the way it is. Most people have great suspicion over LA, and most think FL's tests were accurate, but the messy work, the leaking to the press...they make it stink just a bit, so it leaves a sense that the lab is happy to nail them...leading to questions...did they "help" the results? If i's were dotted, t's were crossed and they didn't run to the press the moment they found something, none of this would be an issue.
#289
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99ers.
So, what makes y'all think the chicken only has 1 passport? Danish, lives in Italy and has a Mexican
wife?
I've heard that Menchov just abandoned and Boogard was reported to want to leave
yesterday.
I for one, will continue to watch cycling. I might remind you that there are other races,
go watch the spring classics, watch the Giro or Vuelta or what ever race you can get
broadcast.
If we abandon cycling they might as well replace the whole thing with extreme Cage match
running of the bulls.
marty
So, what makes y'all think the chicken only has 1 passport? Danish, lives in Italy and has a Mexican
wife?
I've heard that Menchov just abandoned and Boogard was reported to want to leave
yesterday.
I for one, will continue to watch cycling. I might remind you that there are other races,
go watch the spring classics, watch the Giro or Vuelta or what ever race you can get
broadcast.
If we abandon cycling they might as well replace the whole thing with extreme Cage match
running of the bulls.
marty
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#290
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#291
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Until it came out you were [possibly] in Florence learning how to crack your company's internal control so you could fake your sales data.
#292
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Could all of this be good for viewership in the United States? Americans love a controversy and this years tour has not been a disappointment. It made the front page of our local paper here, the front page! Until this, you had to scour the sports section to see anything. Could it be possible that we will gain people watching just to see and hear the spectacle of all of this.... people like Nascar to see the wrecks, people slow down on the freeway looking for blood at an accident. Could it be that this hard-lined stance could not only help send a strong message and clean up the sport but also have more eyeballs on Versus than ever before?
#293
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I mean, so far we've had an entire team thrown out because of the result of a single rider's "A" sample. Now, that's pretty damning, sure; but what happened to the "B" sample? I am a lab researcher by trade, and a single result in science is meaningless without confirmation by repetition. The people in charge of the doping control obviously know this too, hence the existence of "B" samples in the first place.
If you get punished before that "B" sample is even tested though, what good is it? If I ran my research the way these dope testing labs run, no-one in my field would believe a single scrap of data I ever produced, and I'd be run out of the field in short order. In cycling, people's reputations are being irreversibly ruined as a result of these practices that no reputable scientist would ever endorse. And everyone else seems happy about that, as long as sommeone is getting "caught".
Now we have the current yellow jersey holder removed, seemingly on the un-corroborated word of a single witness. I guess it's Rabobank's right to fire any tetam member they want, but it sure does stink to someone who lives under the philosophy of "Innocent until proven guilty".
My take on this whole thing is that pro cycling is so desperate to appear as though they're being tough on doping that they're not even bothering to follow their own procedures on the matter. Rather, they're just throwing anyone out who looks as though they're guilty, without bothering with the proper follow-through.
#294
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Umm...yeah, just a "minor" rules violation...
Determined on the road requires that you submit to required drug tests...
After that, you may determine it on the road as much as you like...
He is a farking cheater, guilty with no chance of proving innocence...
Unless he can prove he took a wrong turn at "Albequirky..."
Determined on the road requires that you submit to required drug tests...
After that, you may determine it on the road as much as you like...
He is a farking cheater, guilty with no chance of proving innocence...
Unless he can prove he took a wrong turn at "Albequirky..."
When I posted that comment, all that had been heard was that Rasmussen was out - no explanation of why. After hearing of the bombs on the course, it wasn't clear what the reason was, and I was hoping he wasn't withdrawing for reasons of personal safety after receiving threats. That would have been wrong.
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#295
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- "Never used performance enhancing drugs" (does not exclude blood doping)
- "Have never tested positive" (does not exclude using substances when he wasn't tested, or using substances for which he was not tested, or that could not be detected).
#296
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. . .
Now we have the current yellow jersey holder removed, seemingly on the un-corroborated word of a single witness. I guess it's Rabobank's right to fire any tetam member they want, but it sure does stink to someone who lives under the philosophy of "Innocent until proven guilty".
Now we have the current yellow jersey holder removed, seemingly on the un-corroborated word of a single witness. I guess it's Rabobank's right to fire any tetam member they want, but it sure does stink to someone who lives under the philosophy of "Innocent until proven guilty".
Innocent until proven guilty applies quite well in U.S. law,This however isn't U.S. law. Knowing the
dutch and their propensity for legal rights you can be damned sure that they were well within their legal right to fire him.
he lied, he got caught, he confessed, he got fired. pretty clear cut to me (atmo).
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#297
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There is also a press quote from deRooy saying he was visiting an unknown doctor in Italy, and so the team decision is understandable.
It still raises the question that if riders have the means to cheat in undetectable ways, should you be able to change the rules and DQ them (not exactly DQ happened), even if you can't catch them cheating.
I think blacklisting some doctors is a good idea, but it shouldn't be done retroactively.
It still raises the question that if riders have the means to cheat in undetectable ways, should you be able to change the rules and DQ them (not exactly DQ happened), even if you can't catch them cheating.
I think blacklisting some doctors is a good idea, but it shouldn't be done retroactively.
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"When Rasmussen was confronted with this information he confirmed to [team manager] Theo de Rooy he was at that moment in Italy," said Rabobank press officer Jacob Bergsma. "That was the reason De Rooy decided to get him out of the Tour and the team." - from www.cyclingnews.com.
[SNIP]
he lied, he got caught, he confessed, he got fired. pretty clear cut to me (atmo).
[SNIP]
he lied, he got caught, he confessed, he got fired. pretty clear cut to me (atmo).
Originally Posted by Agence France Presse
Filed: July 26, 2007
Michael Rasmussen has reacted angrily to being kicked out of the Tour de France and sacked by his team after allegedly lying about his whereabouts during a missed random dope test.
Rabobank dramatically split with Rasmussen after the Danish rider had consolidated his race lead with victory in Wednesday's 16th stage.
The Dutch team justified its action by saying Rasmussen had lied when he said he'd been in Mexico rather than Italy for one of the four dope tests he failed to show up for in the past 18 months.
But, in an interview with Danish newspaper B.T. Rasmussen questioned his team manager Theo de Rooy's decision to drop him.
"It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves," Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But there's not the slightest proof."
Michael Rasmussen has reacted angrily to being kicked out of the Tour de France and sacked by his team after allegedly lying about his whereabouts during a missed random dope test.
Rabobank dramatically split with Rasmussen after the Danish rider had consolidated his race lead with victory in Wednesday's 16th stage.
The Dutch team justified its action by saying Rasmussen had lied when he said he'd been in Mexico rather than Italy for one of the four dope tests he failed to show up for in the past 18 months.
But, in an interview with Danish newspaper B.T. Rasmussen questioned his team manager Theo de Rooy's decision to drop him.
"It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves," Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But there's not the slightest proof."
You're right though, US Law does not apply to the Tour - but as a viewer from the US the entire process still seems utterly distasteful. Pro cycling's current anti-doping campaign resembles a witch-hunt more than it does a fair process based on the principles of justice.
#299
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So how many people that are bashing Ras also think that Floyd is innocent? or not guilty?
#300
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Originally Posted by the Chicken
"It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves... My boss is mad. I wasn't in Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But there's not the slightest proof."