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Discovery to disband; Hincapie to T-Mobile

Old 08-10-07, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lmccall
The news of Tailwind pulling out of cycling and Bruyneel's retirement is heartbreaking. That a successful cycling team can't find a sponsor is sad indeed.

Other professional sports have managed to keep doping allegations from sticking, and would just as soon not subject their athletes to the level scrutiny applied to cyclists. The safety of false perceptions keeps those sponsors signing the checks.

Fans of cycling aren't going to blame a sponsor if an athlete fails a drug test. It must be the non-fans the sponsors are afraid of. They don't want to seem guilty by association.

How is professional cycling going to change public perceptions?
declare victory in the war on doping and stop the witch hunt .

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Old 08-10-07, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lmccall
The news of Tailwind pulling out of cycling and Bruyneel's retirement is heartbreaking. That a successful cycling team can't find a sponsor is sad indeed.
From Velonews [bold mine]:

"This was a difficult decision, not made any easier by our recent Tour de France success," Stapleton added. "We were in talks with a number of companies about the opportunity and were confident a new sponsor was imminent. We have chosen, however, to end those discussions."

Tailwind spokesman PJ Rabice told VeloNews Friday morning that the decision was not based on "a failure to find a new sponsor."

Sounds like there may be other factors at play rather than not being able to find a sponsor.
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Old 08-10-07, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by harlond
In other news, cycling fans everywhere are celebrating the decision of T-Mobile to continue in the sport, undeterred by doping evidence against the team which includes the admission that the team had a longstanding, teamwide doping program, positive tests by current riders as recently as last month, recent positive tests by former riders (such as Vino and Kessler), and continued representation of the team by Rolf Aldag, who has admitted participating in the teamwide doping program.
Difference:

Team Manager Disco: Bruyneel who oversaw the Lance Armstrong years, and signed Basso (admitting to at least planning to dope) and Contador (now under a WADA investigation).

Team Manager T-Mobile: Stapleton ~ brought in to run the team in 2007 in order to CLEAN THE TEAM UP.

Sponsors are not staying away from the team itself, they are staying away from owners and managers who have a shady history with doping.
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Old 08-10-07, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vik
From Velonews [bold mine]:

"This was a difficult decision, not made any easier by our recent Tour de France success," Stapleton added. "We were in talks with a number of companies about the opportunity and were confident a new sponsor was imminent. We have chosen, however, to end those discussions."

Tailwind spokesman PJ Rabice told VeloNews Friday morning that the decision was not based on "a failure to find a new sponsor."

Sounds like there may be other factors at play rather than not being able to find a sponsor.

Yeah like, "We'll sponsor you if implement T-Mobile and Slipstream like testing"

"Err, then we won't be winning"


It was imminent btw, my very good friend spent a good part of the tour helping run a private big-wig tour for the potential new sponsors and when he finished he was pretty sure that tailwinds had found their sponsor.
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Old 08-10-07, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by vik
From Velonews [bold mine]:

"This was a difficult decision, not made any easier by our recent Tour de France success," Stapleton added. "We were in talks with a number of companies about the opportunity and were confident a new sponsor was imminent. We have chosen, however, to end those discussions."

Tailwind spokesman PJ Rabice told VeloNews Friday morning that the decision was not based on "a failure to find a new sponsor."

Sounds like there may be other factors at play rather than not being able to find a sponsor.
My initial speculation is that Armstrong and Bruyneel realize that if they stay in cycling:

(a) They risk continued allegations and potentially being outed for having been knee-deep in the PED's during Lance's career. They saw what happened with the T-Mobile affair and Bjarne Riis. Why stay in the sport where the spotlight and inquiries into the 99 - 2007 run will always be a constant. Lance I think realizes it is time to get out before he gets outed.

(b) The increased testing that is coming to the Pro Tour is not going to favor this team. This team has built up its success by being the best chemically enhanced team on the planet. The increased scrutiny and testing were going to take away their advantage over the Peleton.

(c) Contador: I have a feeling they see the heat coming down on Contador, and that in itself was a hinderence in getting a new sponsor. The last thing they want to do is to be an active team and have to deal with one of its riders being stripped of the Yellow. This would also add more heat and inquiries into Lance.
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Old 08-10-07, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
My initial speculation is that Armstrong and Bruyneel realize that if they stay in cycling:

(a) They risk continued allegations and potentially being outed for having been knee-deep in the PED's during Lance's career. They saw what happened with the T-Mobile affair and Bjarne Riis. Why stay in the sport where the spotlight and inquiries into the 99 - 2007 run will always be a constant. Lance I think realizes it is time to get out before he gets outed.

(b) The increased testing that is coming to the Pro Tour is not going to favor this team. This team has built up its success by being the best chemically enhanced team on the planet. The increased scrutiny and testing were going to take away their advantage over the Peleton.

(c) Contador: I have a feeling they see the heat coming down on Contador, and that in itself was a hinderence in getting a new sponsor. The last thing they want to do is to be an active team and have to deal with one of its riders being stripped of the Yellow. This would also add more heat and inquiries into Lance.
+1 - Lance to Bruneeyl "...Johan...dude...get out while your on top baby - just like me...all it will take is one Landis and US Postal/Disco goes down the toilet bowel of history. Leave now and you have 8 TdeF wins in 9 years and you da' man!..."
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Old 08-10-07, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
Difference:

Team Manager Disco: Bruyneel who oversaw the Lance Armstrong years, and signed Basso (admitting to at least planning to dope) and Contador (now under a WADA investigation).

Team Manager T-Mobile: Stapleton ~ brought in to run the team in 2007 in order to CLEAN THE TEAM UP.
Like I said, you are undeterred by the evidence.
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Old 08-10-07, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by harlond
Like I said, you are undeterred by the evidence.
No - I understand the evidence. You are the one who is ignoring the evidence.

Bob Stapleton was NOT AROUND PRIOR TO 2007. Any infractions in 2006 or before have nothing to do with the current T-Mobile team. Secondly, any former T-Mobile riders caught doping this year have no bearing on the current team. Did it pass over your head the fact that Kloden decided not to re-up with T-Mobile after Stapleton came on board, and where did he go....Astana!!

Finally - the current T-Mobile rider flagged for testosterone is bothersome. However, testosterone is the one PED that is really going to be tough for teams to monitor. All it takes is a desperate athlete to get a hold of some testosterone gel patches, and behind his hotel door apply it. I definately raised an eye-brow when this ocurred, but due to the open committment of Stapleton to clean the team up, the Kloden defection and the lackluster performances of T-Mobile, leads me to beleive that Stapleton is doing more than teams like Disco and Astana.

Remember - there is more to a team than the Jersey. The 2007 T-Mobile team is a much different team than the pre-2007 team even though the jersey is the same.


If the same management team was running T-Mobile as prior to 2007, I would be in complete agreement with you. But T-Mobile and Stapleton are trying to change this team and the sport.
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Old 08-10-07, 05:05 PM
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well this sucks....looks like slipstream is the new US team to watch.
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Old 08-10-07, 05:09 PM
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There goes any chance of TV coverage next year.
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Old 08-10-07, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
But T-Mobile and Stapleton are trying to change this team and the sport.
Your belief in this proposition is your whole case. Ain't much.
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Old 08-10-07, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
My initial speculation is that Armstrong and Bruyneel realize that if they stay in cycling:

(a) They risk continued allegations and potentially being outed for having been knee-deep in the PED's during Lance's career. They saw what happened with the T-Mobile affair and Bjarne Riis. Why stay in the sport where the spotlight and inquiries into the 99 - 2007 run will always be a constant. Lance I think realizes it is time to get out before he gets outed.

(b) The increased testing that is coming to the Pro Tour is not going to favor this team. This team has built up its success by being the best chemically enhanced team on the planet. The increased scrutiny and testing were going to take away their advantage over the Peleton.

(c) Contador: I have a feeling they see the heat coming down on Contador, and that in itself was a hinderence in getting a new sponsor. The last thing they want to do is to be an active team and have to deal with one of its riders being stripped of the Yellow. This would also add more heat and inquiries into Lance.
Those were my immediate thoughts as soon as I heard the news about Discovery disbanding, especially your first point.
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Old 08-10-07, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Devil
Those were my immediate thoughts as soon as I heard the news about Discovery disbanding, especially your first point.
It is why I think the asking price for the sponsorship was so high. If they really wanted to stay in cycling, they would have dropped their demands for $15 million per year. As I stated in another thread, they wanted out of cycling, set the price so high, that: (a) if they get it, holy crap, take it; (b) if not, they can leave cycling with an excuse: i.e. - "We could not get a sponsor".
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Old 08-10-07, 08:48 PM
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If Thomas Weisel partners had remained motivated, this team would have found a viable sponsor. I think those gents just got bored with their game, and are ready to take their mega-millions with them as they retire and ride their bikes off into the sunset. They've satisfied their egos eight times over now, and probably feel they have nothing left to prove on this stage.
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Old 08-10-07, 11:32 PM
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im still beside myself about this news. 15 million does sound like a huge budget for a cycling team but it seems like they were just starting to get their post lance stride back. obviously, with the contador win and overall team win. wtf?!! even with the controversy of this tour (when is there not controversy anyway?!!), and a rider who was caught doping, t-mobile announced that is going to stay on as a title sponsor of its team....so to discovery, why quit now?!! i think they are just throwing in the towel and giving up, and for me a fan, i feel let down. i guess its all eyes on slipstream now....go team burrito.

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Old 08-11-07, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pdxtex
im still beside myself about this news. 15 million does sound like a huge budget for a cycling team but it seems like they were just starting to get their post lance stride back. obviously, with the contador win and overall team win. wtf?!! even with the controversy of this tour (when is there not controversy anyway?!!), and a rider who was caught doping, t-mobile announced that is going to stay on as a title sponsor of its team....so to discovery, why quit now?!! i think they are just throwing in the towel and giving up, and for me a fan, i feel let down. i guess its all eyes on slipstream now....go team burrito.
This is why even the main stream media is raising questions about the motivation in the articles. The NY Times even raised the doping question. You do not win your 8th Tour in 9 years, have arguably the youngest talent in the entire peleton (equaled maybe by Andy Schleck) on your team and have Lance Armstrong backing you, and throw in the towel like they did. You are telling me that $10 million would not have worked? I mean, this is not like Contador is on his last leg, and the rest of the team is weak and old, and there is a serious rebuilding project ahead. They would have been clear favorites next year.

Even if USAZorro is correct, and some of the Partners wanted out, if Lance and Bruyneel really wanted, they could have found other partners.

Lance and Bruyneel wanted out. You have to work on that presumption and from there, you then do the thought experiment as to why? And as stated by numerous posters, the Bjarne Riis and T-Mobile situation was probably a big reason why. These guys can leave, and slowly people will move on. If Lance and Bruyneel stay in the sport, with the Contador investigation going on, all it will do is lead to more questions and potentially the entire bag of beans being spilled about the 1999 - 2005 era.
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Old 08-11-07, 09:21 AM
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According to an internal email sent to Trek employees they will be looking for another team to ride their bikes.
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Old 08-11-07, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
Lance and Bruyneel wanted out.
Why the hell shouldn't Lance want out? He doesn't need the money. LAF gives him plenty to do to keep busy. The only thing he has left to prove, as a cyclist, is that he didn't dope. And he's never gonna do that to the satisfaction of the has-beens, never-weres, wanna-bes, and just plain trolls that wouldn't take God almighty's word that he rode clean. So why SHOULDN'T he just say **** it?
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Old 08-11-07, 04:22 PM
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This is shady stuff but I'm not exactly surprised.

I'd love to see George take one last crack at the spring classics. Hopefully he'll have the team to do it now.
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Old 08-11-07, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by marqueemoon
This is shady stuff but I'm not exactly surprised.

I'd love to see George take one last crack at the spring classics. Hopefully he'll have the team to do it now.
as much as like george i don't think he has it in him anymore. the desire or the ability.

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Old 08-11-07, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by a77impala
According to an internal email sent to Trek employees they will be looking for another team to ride their bikes.
Is this the surprise of the century or what. Of course they will be looking for another team. Seems to me, after Disco, Astana is the best fit for Trek.
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Old 08-16-07, 06:07 AM
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I mean, I'm really not surprised about the Disco team dropping Slipstream, Cycling is looking more and more like European Football IMO.

Apparently, the hunt for the new sponsors went as far as CHINA. CHINA!!! Doping in the tour happens - lets face it - but I think all of the publicity regarding Landis and his "innocence" brought a lot more attention than usual. And then you have his claims of some photograph of Lance's blood being transfered on a motorbike...

How can we so quickly forget LeMond? Training with his neighbor who called him "The Champ" he made a comeback victory to win the tour? After he was shot in the back?

Nevertheless, Trek is going to be served as a company if they can't find themselves a new team to ride their bikes. Half the people coming into the shop I work at are like, "Trek? Well, I know that's a good brand because Lance Armstrong rides it!" I'm not saying that will change at all - but just think if Trek starts coming back to Interbike...
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Old 08-16-07, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by idiq
And then you have his claims of some photograph of Lance's blood being transfered on a motorbike...
Just to be clear on this point, it was an instant messaging log, between Frankie Andreau and Jonathan Vaughters where one of them (I think it was Andreau) said that Floyd had the pictures, not Floyd himself making this claim.
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Old 08-16-07, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by efficiency
Just to be clear on this point, it was an instant messaging log, between Frankie Andreau and Jonathan Vaughters where one of them (I think it was Andreau) said that Floyd had the pictures, not Floyd himself making this claim.
Thanks for pointing that out, I should have clarified.
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Old 08-22-07, 08:08 PM
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The reason you need $15 mill instead of 10 is that the doctors needed to administer micro doses of EPO don't come cheap and riders can't carry thermos' full of EPO around anymore, you have to pay everyone off. Very pricey, indeed.
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