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Old 08-18-07, 06:01 PM   #1
garth
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Anyone read Mark Walsh's book "From Lance to Landis"?

I've read a bit of Mark Walsh's recent book "From Lance to Landis". I think the guy has some real insight and has done a lot of good research. Even the doubters will have a good read.

Garth
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Old 08-18-07, 10:01 PM   #2
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I've read a bit of Mark Walsh's recent book "From Lance to Landis". I think the guy has some real insight and has done a lot of good research. Even the doubters will have a good read.

Garth
+1

This book should be required reading for anyone before posting on doping on BF.
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Old 08-18-07, 10:45 PM   #3
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No, but I read a book by David Walsh with the same title.

It was a good read.
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Old 08-19-07, 12:24 AM   #4
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+1

This book should be required reading for anyone before posting on doping on BF.

Bacause it deals with random accusations and denials?
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Old 08-19-07, 01:16 AM   #5
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Bacause it deals with random accusations and denials?
random? nope
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Old 08-19-07, 01:31 AM   #6
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random? nope
Any proof then?
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Old 08-19-07, 07:15 AM   #7
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The author's name is David Walsh--he's a respected UK sports journalist. I read the book when it came out, and found myself depressed at the end--the sport I dearly love is clearly in a state of profound crisis. There were no new bombshells, but it serves a useful purpose in collecting the raft of circumstantial and testified evidence regarding the culture of doping in professional cycling, and the American involvement in that culture since the early 1990's.

While you can pick at individual bits of evidence here and there, the cumulative picture Walsh presents is overwhelming and damning. Of course, the Lance Strongarm acolytes will never be convinced that his seven wins were anything but immaculate. Religious beliefs resist falsification.
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Old 08-19-07, 11:13 AM   #8
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Any proof then?
just testimony from people involved including the SCA/tailwind sports trial which is public record

Walsh's book prettymuch covers it from all angles. Performance history, what each drug does, some history of doping, the people involved including one of Lance's soigneurs, its a pretty complete and damning account.

Take a close hard look at Armstrong's pre 1999 performances on big hills then fast forward and look at it after , and then do the same with Hincapie and the others around him. Then check Armstrong's body weight over his career. Almost every thing that is accepted as gospel is mostly BS, from his post cancer weight loss and better power to weight ratio to his style of riding. Pull out all your tdf footage from 1995-2006 and have a close hard look at some of these riders, no signs of doping huh? Doesn't hold up under scrutiny, not even close.

If you don't want to learn about cycling and doping cause it may ruin it for you then don't read these books, cause it will. Ive read Armstrong's books, Landis' book, and 3 doping books among others. Almost anything you really wanna know is readily available, fact is most never take the time to find out.
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Old 08-19-07, 11:41 AM   #9
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I recently read Lance Armstrong's War. It was nifty for me because I know so little about racing. It is hard to read it without coming to the conclusion that most of the riders, maybe all of the riders, use some kind of dope.

Drugs have always been a part of the tour and they prob always will.

I think I always knew. If you know someone that got over cancer, you know it's
a long road back. But I was a fan, still am.

But I am not a fan of the Tour the way they manage it now. I don't much care how things are managed, I just know I hate the results. Perhaps they should call it the Tour de Disqualification now. Let me know if things get better.
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Old 08-20-07, 05:58 AM   #10
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Take a close hard look at Armstrong's pre 1999 performances on big hills then fast forward and look at it after , and then do the same with Hincapie and the others around him. Then check Armstrong's body weight over his career. Almost every thing that is accepted as gospel is mostly BS, from his post cancer weight loss and better power to weight ratio to his style of riding. Pull out all your tdf footage from 1995-2006 and have a close hard look at some of these riders, no signs of doping huh? Doesn't hold up under scrutiny, not even close.
I am aware of all the little facts that don't ad up. I meant any proof that could really strip him of his victories.
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Old 08-20-07, 08:26 AM   #11
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just testimony from people involved including the SCA/tailwind sports trial which is public record

Walsh's book prettymuch covers it from all angles. Performance history, what each drug does, some history of doping, the people involved including one of Lance's soigneurs, its a pretty complete and damning account.

Take a close hard look at Armstrong's pre 1999 performances on big hills then fast forward and look at it after , and then do the same with Hincapie and the others around him. Then check Armstrong's body weight over his career. Almost every thing that is accepted as gospel is mostly BS, from his post cancer weight loss and better power to weight ratio to his style of riding. Pull out all your tdf footage from 1995-2006 and have a close hard look at some of these riders, no signs of doping huh? Doesn't hold up under scrutiny, not even close.

If you don't want to learn about cycling and doping cause it may ruin it for you then don't read these books, cause it will. Ive read Armstrong's books, Landis' book, and 3 doping books among others. Almost anything you really wanna know is readily available, fact is most never take the time to find out.

Frankie Andreau's addmitted use of EPO during that tour is very telling. It shows what little effect that the Festina affair had on the use of PEDs in the peloton.
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Old 08-20-07, 03:35 PM   #12
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For all the doping deniers and Walsh critics there is an amazing in-depth interview with him on Competitor Radio (more than 2 hours in total). Really worth listening to... If it was already posted here, sorry for bringing it up again
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Old 08-21-07, 12:42 AM   #13
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Frankie Andreau's addmitted use of EPO during that tour is very telling. It shows what little effect that the Festina affair had on the use of PEDs in the peloton.
Pro Cycling this month there's a very interesting interview with Carlos Da Cruz in which he says that after Festina everybody stopped doping for a couple of years and slowly everyone except the French started again.
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Old 08-21-07, 07:25 AM   #14
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I've read a bit of Mark Walsh's recent book "From Lance to Landis". I think the guy has some real insight and has done a lot of good research. Even the doubters will have a good read.

Garth
NO, but i just finished landis' book last night
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Old 08-21-07, 04:47 PM   #15
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I think before really having any sort of informed viewpoint you should read ALL of the books, then listen to the interviews here: http://www.competitorradio.com/archive.php
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Old 08-21-07, 08:35 PM   #16
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Pro Cycling this month there's a very interesting interview with Carlos Da Cruz in which he says that after Festina everybody stopped doping for a couple of years and slowly everyone except the French started again.

I've just finished the book and it has the IM between Andreu and Vaughters, that is posted in another thread, and if you believe that and most of the book, it looks like some of the teams did back off but LA and Johan went full speed ahead.
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Old 08-22-07, 10:12 PM   #17
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Never has so much nonsense been printed in one book. The entire point of the book is to accuse Lance Armstrong of cheating, yet not ONE credible witness was quoted as saying "I saw Lance Armstrong use dope"...

Instead, it was stuff like "Well, we know "A" doped, and "B" doped, and Lance beat "A" and "B", so Lance must have doped....

And, Walsh was very careful. He would quote people gossiping about Lance and speculating about Lance. But, at no point did he ever say "I personally conclude Lance doped" or even "Based on my investigation, I think Lance doped". Coward and liar that he is, he hides behind just spreading as much gossip as he can without ever directly stating his own personal opinion.
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Old 08-22-07, 10:34 PM   #18
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good read and I think in cycling you can say alot of this stuff is probably true. For those who say " no one saw lance armstrong use EPO" doesn't mean he didn't. no body saw Bjarne Riis but he did. I think lance fans find it hard to believe since he was sooooo much better than all of the greatest cyclist in the world who at the time many used PED and still lance blew them away on pure heart. well that " heart" was pumping some pretty thick stuff!

I like lance and i am a fan. And I don't really care if he used PEDs or not. I think that regardless the field was equal. what he did is amazing. against those amazing cyclist. Jan / Pantani / Basso - ( all dopers ) wait Basso didn't dope he just was " thinking about doping.. . . . . ..
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Old 08-23-07, 06:51 AM   #19
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I am aware of all the little facts that don't ad up. I meant any proof that could really strip him of his victories.
What are the facts that don't add up in the book?
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Old 08-23-07, 11:34 AM   #20
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One of the things that I didn't like about "Lance to Landis" is whenever he wrote about "LA Confidential" he never flat out stated that he was the co-author.
The only time his name and "LA Confidential" were associated was in the lawsuit LA filed against the two authers and the publisher and if you were not playing close attention it was easily missed.
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Old 09-11-07, 06:50 PM   #21
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Never has so much nonsense been printed in one book. The entire point of the book is to accuse Lance Armstrong of cheating, yet not ONE credible witness was quoted as saying "I saw Lance Armstrong use dope"...

Instead, it was stuff like "Well, we know "A" doped, and "B" doped, and Lance beat "A" and "B", so Lance must have doped....

And, Walsh was very careful. He would quote people gossiping about Lance and speculating about Lance. But, at no point did he ever say "I personally conclude Lance doped" or even "Based on my investigation, I think Lance doped". Coward and liar that he is, he hides behind just spreading as much gossip as he can without ever directly stating his own personal opinion.
I haven't read the book but I wouldn't call a journalist a coward and a liar for presenting evidence and not his opinion. That is what journalism is, unlike what most media present as NEWS that is in fact opinion. The reader comes to their OWN conclusion instead of being told what to believe.
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Old 09-14-07, 09:51 PM   #22
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Yeah, I read the book. My wife got it for my birthday because she thought I would like it. It was nothing but half-truths and inuendo. Sad that such a jerk is able to make money like this.
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Old 09-17-07, 01:31 PM   #23
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Common sense says if "All your peers/competitors have been busted for some form of drug use and you were smashing all of them in your hey day"

And there have been suspicions of drug by former riders who rode with you..............

I hope he didnt cheat, it would make Lance that more of a Bad *****
Do i believe he didn't cheat?......... Nope ..... It would be niave of me to think that.
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Old 09-19-07, 11:04 AM   #24
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I don't much like Armstrong, think Landis revealed some unsavory character traits during his doping trial, and know for a fact that drug use is a big part of this sport. I've also read several of Walsh's books and think he's a scumbag; a "journalist" of the same stripe as Michael Moore, both of whom play manipulative and deceitful games with half-truths and innuendos. I get the same feeling reading "Lance to Landis" as I do watching "Bowling for Columbine": that I am being led around by the nose, by a pseudo-clever charlatan, to a predetermined conclusion.
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