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  1. #1
    sector99
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    Swimmer Ian Thorpe Cleared of Doping (This will aid Landis' case)

    Ian Thorpe has been cleared of doping charges (Testosterone and epitestosterone urine tested positive).
    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/08....ap/index.html

    This finding, supported by several independent Australian labs, will doubtless aid Floyd Landis case as he too was charged with doping violations in the 2006 TdF.

    caio

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    Sadly, I doubt this can help anyone. After a hearing is completed, and all of the evidence presented, it is too late to try to present new evidence. Second, a hearing focuses on the facts at hand. What happened in one lab is not especially relevent to what happens in another lab.

    Based on what the testimony of the French lab technician, the French doping lab may be the worst in the world ("I threw out the machine's results and substituting my guess of what the results ought to be because the machine is broken a lot, and I don't trust the results from the machine"). I don't know how folks in the room didn't fall on the floor laughing during her testimony.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Both the testosterone and the Epi were high in Thorps test. No ratio problem. No Isotope test is mentioned. Just how would this help Landis whose ratio was off and also had a positive isotope test?

  4. #4
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    It supports the contention that the tests aren't reliable.

    Unfortunately, it's probably too late to have any effect on the FL outcome. Unless, that is, the FL judges can be swayed by potential PR results (not as crazy as it sounds) and the Thorpe case changes public opinion.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    It supports the contention that the tests aren't reliable.

    Unfortunately, it's probably too late to have any effect on the FL outcome. Unless, that is, the FL judges can be swayed by potential PR results (not as crazy as it sounds) and the Thorpe case changes public opinion.
    Where did you get that idea? The tests were not thrown out, it was simply confirmed that he had a naturally high level of BOTH Testosterone and Epi.

  6. #6
    meb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Both the testosterone and the Epi were high in Thorps test. No ratio problem. No Isotope test is mentioned. Just how would this help Landis whose ratio was off and also had a positive isotope test?
    Actually, Thorpe was just over the 4:1 ratio. He had consistently been proximate a 4:1 ratio throughout his career, the change from 6:1 to 4:1 registered the May 2006 positive on what in earlier years was a negative test.


    http://www.theage.com.au/news/swimmi...366408414.html

  7. #7
    meb
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    Why was L'equipe the leaker of the story in Thorpe's case-was LNDD also involved in Thorpe's test?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sci-Fi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meb View Post
    Why was L'equipe the leaker of the story in Thorpe's case-was LNDD also involved in Thorpe's test?
    Because they are all under one corporate roof...TdF organizers(ASO), the lab, and L'equipe. What better way to sell papers and increase circulation if you can get the "breaking news" even before the athlete knows about the results of his "confidential" test results. The ASO has been accused in the past for using L'equipe as a sounding board and to level accusations if their lab can't get a positive result. It's one of the reasons people outside of France feel the cards are stacked and there's an ethical question about the integrity of the event and the lab test procedures/results if it's all controlled by one corp. If the lab was an independent one mutally agreed upon by the ASO, UCI, and WADA before the event, then a lot of the current controversy would most likely be a lot less visible and L'equipe wouldn't seemingly have a first crack at any stories from the lab. The current testing lab would be better off video taping each and every sample collection and sample test so there are fewer questions about the testing methods and the results. In the past there has been accusations about the collection materials being "tampered wth" and the samples being tainted/contaminated before it gets to the lab.

    Sure there are athletes that cheat and they should be caught. But everything else need to be above board to have the credibility and trust of all, well...most people, in the test results or how the conclusion was reached.

  9. #9
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Where did you get that idea? The tests were not thrown out, it was simply confirmed that he had a naturally high level of BOTH Testosterone and Epi.
    The details aren't important (or even available) to the public. What is important was that Thorpe was accused of doping due to some test results, and after a hearing he was cleared.

    Natural deduction is that the tests were screwed up. That's how the public hears it.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

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  10. #10
    meb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sci-Fi View Post
    Because they are all under one corporate roof...TdF organizers(ASO), the lab, and L'equipe. What better way to sell papers and increase circulation if you can get the "breaking news" even before the athlete knows about the results of his "confidential" test results. The ASO has been accused in the past for using L'equipe as a sounding board and to level accusations if their lab can't get a positive result. It's one of the reasons people outside of France feel the cards are stacked and there's an ethical question about the integrity of the event and the lab test procedures/results if it's all controlled by one corp. If the lab was an independent one mutally agreed upon by the ASO, UCI, and WADA before the event, then a lot of the current controversy would most likely be a lot less visible and L'equipe wouldn't seemingly have a first crack at any stories from the lab. The current testing lab would be better off video taping each and every sample collection and sample test so there are fewer questions about the testing methods and the results. In the past there has been accusations about the collection materials being "tampered wth" and the samples being tainted/contaminated before it gets to the lab.

    Sure there are athletes that cheat and they should be caught. But everything else need to be above board to have the credibility and trust of all, well...most people, in the test results or how the conclusion was reached.

    What could ASO and the Tour de France possibly have to do with leaking Thorpe's test results?

    Again, where is the link to L'equipe and LNDD to Thorpe-was the test done in France by LNDD or sent to France?

  11. #11
    oldsprinter oldsprinter's Avatar
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    Just read the report in the The Age (the link's in Mebs post), and what I learned about Thorpe's case leads me to believe:

    a. Thorpe's case was very different to Landis's.
    b. The lab didn't mess up, it simply reported its findings (the debate was over what the findings meant)
    c. Both the Thorpe and Landis cases seem to have ended/look to be ending with the right verdicts.

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