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Thread: Landis Decision

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    Dog is my copilot. GGDub's Avatar
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    Landis Decision

    I guess I'm the first to see this, not even on Velonews yet.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...ory?id=3029089
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    Just saw that on MSNBC...

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    Senior Member roadCruiser76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGDub View Post
    I guess I'm the first to see this, not even on Velonews yet.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...ory?id=3029089
    I can't say it surprises me, although I think Landis made a good case. It would have created too much controversy and difficulty for the sport if they would have acquitted him. I'm sure that that played a part in the decision.

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    cn.com has it now:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ep07/sep21news

    By the way, there is a great article about Tyler and his "Believers" in the Nov issue of Bicycling. Highly recommended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
    cn.com has it now:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ep07/sep21news

    By the way, there is a great article about Tyler and his "Believers" in the Nov issue of Bicycling. Highly recommended.
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    Somehow, I think we all knew what the outcome was going to be, whether he was actually guilty or not.

    I wonder if he'll appeal the decision or if he can afford to appeal.

    Ultimately, no matter what our judgements may be only Landis knows for sure whether he did or didn't cheat.

    But I am just having mixed feelings right now. I feel my faith in the sport, or more appropriately the governing bodies, is lost and that this witch hunt is just the beginning of a lot more turmoil that has already been stirred and to come in the sport.

    I feel bad for Landis and American cycling.

    I'm hoping teams like Team Slipstream can popularize Amercian cycling like Disco/Postal did but without the air of doubt.

    I'm sure the French are toasting in the streets about now. How sad that would be to cheer one's downfall.

    I just can't see that Oscar can be proud of this TdF "win".
    Last edited by Gee3; 09-20-07 at 12:34 PM.
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    This is a really good article. http://www.kare11.com/sports/sports_...storyid=265236

    Anyone know where one can obtain a copy of the decision?



    And how long before the server crashes?
    Last edited by skanking biker; 09-20-07 at 12:17 PM.

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    The majority repeatedly wrote that any mistakes made at the lab were not enough to dismiss the positive test, but also sent a warning.

    "If such practises continue, it may well be that in the future, an error like this could result in the dismissal" of a positive finding by the lab.

    What, so we'll look the other way and excuse your rampant incompetency this time because we don't like Landis, but next time we'll hold you accountable?

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    I'd have been shocked if he was acquitted. I think the only one who will ever know whether he's truly guilty or not is Landis himself. Sad day for cycling period.
    Another century in the bag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gee3 View Post
    Somehow, I think we all knew what the outcome was going to be, whether he was actually guilty or not.

    I wonder if he'll appeal the decision or if he can afford to appeal.

    Ultimately, no matter what our judgements may be only Landis knows for sure whether he did or didn't cheat.

    But I am just having mixed feelings right now. I feel my faith in the sport, or more appropriately the governing bodies, is lost and that this witch hunt is just the beginning of a lot more turmoil that has already been stirred and to come in the sport.

    I feel bad for Landis and American cycling.

    I'm hoping teams like Team Slipstream can popularize Amercian cycling like Disco/Postal did but without the air of doubt.

    I'm sure the French are toating in the streets about now. How sad that would be to cheer one's downfall.
    +1 it's a sad time in the sport, even if it was brought upon itself
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    Quote Originally Posted by worker4youth View Post
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    Landis has a month to decide whether or not to appeal the "guilty" finding. But, odds are, his career is over. He will go into history as the only winner of the Tour de France to ever lose the yellow jersey based on an official finding that he cheated to win.

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    "If such practises continue, it may well be that in the future, an error like this could result in the dismissal" of a positive finding by the lab."
    Well that is a good basis for a lawsuit or some sort of legal action for Landis to take I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston View Post
    Landis has a month to decide whether or not to appeal the "guilty" finding. But, odds are, his career is over. He will go into history as the only winner of the Tour de France to ever lose the yellow jersey based on an official finding that he cheated to win.
    even if he does ultimately clear himself, he will be too old to compete by then

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanhulce View Post
    Well that is a good basis for a lawsuit or some sort of legal action for Landis to take I think.
    Who is he going to sue and in what jurisdiction?

    Are you saying that some court would allow Landis to sue a lab whose results were upheld in another legal proceeding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skanking biker View Post
    Who is he going to sue and in what jurisdiction?

    Are you saying that some court would allow Landis to sue a lab whose results were upheld in another legal proceeding?
    My guess and I'm no legal expert is that he may try to have his case heard in the Supreme Court. They are the only ones who could overturn the UCI's decision that I am aware of.
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    This year's Tour could not have helped Folyd's cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanhulce View Post
    My guess and I'm no legal expert is that he may try to have his case heard in the Supreme Court. They are the only ones who could overturn the UCI's decision that I am aware of.
    The hearing is not subject to US law, US courts have no jurisdiction over the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanhulce View Post
    My guess and I'm no legal expert is that he may try to have his case heard in the Supreme Court. They are the only ones who could overturn the UCI's decision that I am aware of.
    I doubt the U.S. supreme court has any jurisdiction over the UCI, a french-based organization. They could rule whether he was unfairly dismissed and try to make the UCI pay compensation (if they have U.S. assets) but they could not force the UCI to allow him to ride. Its kinda like the U.S. supreme court making rulings regarding French Labour laws, they can do it all they want, but it won't make a lick of difference in France.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGDub View Post
    I doubt the U.S. supreme court has any jurisdiction over the UCI, a french-based organization. They could rule whether he was unfairly dismissed and try to make the UCI pay compensation (if they have U.S. assets) but they could not force the UCI to allow him to ride. Its kinda like the U.S. supreme court making rulings regarding French Labour laws, they can do it all they want, but it won't make a lick of difference in France.
    I think you'd have to substitute France and french with Switzerland and swiss:
    Quote Originally Posted by from uci.ch
    The International Cycling Union (UCI), a non-profit-making organization founded on 14 April 1900, is the association of the National Cycling Federations. Its headquarters are in Aigle, Switzerland.
    TH 1.81 (133kg*62)

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    The judges were about as biased, and predictable as your standard vote in Congress. In reality, the only things the hearing proved were that the lab made numerous mistakes, and that two of the "judges" couldn't care less about scientific facts. It's a sad day when politics impedes justice.
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    Dog is my copilot. GGDub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind8 View Post
    I think you'd have to substitute France and french with Switzerland and swiss:
    whoops, you are right. Incidently, why are almost all international sporting federations based in Switzerland?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGDub View Post
    I doubt the U.S. supreme court has any jurisdiction over the UCI, a french-based organization. They could rule whether he was unfairly dismissed and try to make the UCI pay compensation (if they have U.S. assets) but they could not force the UCI to allow him to ride. Its kinda like the U.S. supreme court making rulings regarding French Labour laws, they can do it all they want, but it won't make a lick of difference in France.
    US courts possess neither subject matter jurisdiction over this contraversy nor personal jurisdiction over any of the parties besides Landis.

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    Senior Member Trevor98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skanking biker View Post
    Who is he going to sue and in what jurisdiction?

    Are you saying that some court would allow Landis to sue a lab whose results were upheld in another legal proceeding?
    As it has been thrown in my face so often- this USADA decision has nothing to do with laws. These are merely administrative hearings for a sport.

    And yes, Landis can bring lawsuits against everyone involved. The courts can also throw them all out. As he is now Californian all bets are off on what CA courts will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by skanking biker View Post
    The hearing is not subject to US law, US courts have no jurisdiction over the matter.
    The hearing could very well be subject to US law. The hearing defenitely effects his employment and the US has labor laws (California has more stringent labor laws).

    Quote Originally Posted by GGDub View Post
    I doubt the U.S. supreme court has any jurisdiction over the UCI, a french-based organization. They could rule whether he was unfairly dismissed and try to make the UCI pay compensation (if they have U.S. assets) but they could not force the UCI to allow him to ride. Its kinda like the U.S. supreme court making rulings regarding French Labour laws, they can do it all they want, but it won't make a lick of difference in France.
    The UCI didn't make the decision (nor is it French) USADA did. But that is moot. This will not be handled in the US criminal courts but rather in civil courts- a vastly different thing. The UCI does not control which riders are allowed to ride- national organizing bodies such as the USAC do that and they are very much subject to local rulings. You are obviously ignorant of the Hondo case in which Swiss courts overruled a ban and allowed him to race in spite of the ruling by the Swiss Cycling Federation. I don't know if this will happen but the mere fact that it occurred betrays that you're wrong.

    As for your specific example of the US making rulings on French Labor laws, the US can enforce it's court rulings through various trade tools if enforcement is important enough (not this case). About 15 years ago the US had a problem with French laws regarding subsidies and threatened an embargo on all French goods to protect US national interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by skanking biker View Post
    US courts possess neither subject matter jurisdiction over this contraversy nor personal jurisdiction over any of the parties besides Landis.
    It's often amazing what courts determine as their jurisdiction. He is a employee that resides in California and his employment opportunities have been altered by an administrative decision. Some judge will determine that he has jurisdiction. On a broader scale, US law allows US courts to decide in absentia on foreign entities under certain circumstances. Needless to say this could get interesting.
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    Senior Member Trevor98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGDub View Post
    whoops, you are right. Incidently, why are almost all international sporting federations based in Switzerland?
    The IOC is there due to Switzerland's longstanding neutrality. That neutrality is based on the lack of invasion for the past couple of hundred years (attacking into the mountains is hard). So ultimately, these international sporting federations are based in Switzerland because it's in the mountains.
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