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Old 01-13-08, 07:18 PM   #1
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Lance Armstrong-yes or no

yes i believe him -or- no i do not.............heres my 2 cents,Y-E-S, 100 percent!#1,tested 30 to 40 times a year,#2 tested randomly, all negative,#3 tested in front of reporters while he signed off on the samples,#4 to see video of him training in the alps in cold weather,and people pleading for him to get in the car and he refuses! Let me know ! GOOD OR BAD!.
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Old 01-16-08, 02:16 PM   #2
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No
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Old 01-16-08, 02:18 PM   #3
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Old 01-16-08, 02:23 PM   #4
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NO, Guilty by the company that you keep. With that said, am I saying George is guilty to?
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Old 01-16-08, 02:27 PM   #5
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Yes and No.

It still blows my mind that a clean Lance just crushed in the TdF the Ullrichs, Pantanis, Landises, Hamiltons, Bassos, Heras, Mayos, Vinokurovs, Rasmussens, and others who subesquently have been (justly or unjustly) convicted or accused of doping.

Maybe he just was that good. Maybe there was something more in his Wheaties than 2% milk.

Who knows. Give him a call and ask.
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Old 01-16-08, 03:57 PM   #6
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No...but I don't care. He got away with it fair and square
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Old 01-16-08, 04:36 PM   #7
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He got away with it fair and square
Very good point. Its like a secondary sport trying to 'get away with it'.
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Old 01-16-08, 06:10 PM   #8
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Hasn't this been done to death already?
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Old 01-18-08, 11:01 PM   #9
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yes i believe him -or- no i do not.............heres my 2 cents,Y-E-S, 100 percent!#1,tested 30 to 40 times a year,#2 tested randomly, all negative,#3 tested in front of reporters while he signed off on the samples,#4 to see video of him training in the alps in cold weather,and people pleading for him to get in the car and he refuses! Let me know ! GOOD OR BAD!.
Incorrect. 7 positives.

Besides that your logic is completely flawed. Someone clean slaughtering talented riders like Ullrich and Basso who were on the gear. I don't think so. The video of him training in the cold is a furphy. Its not like Armstrong is the first rider ever to train in bad weather.

Anyone who reckons Armstrong was clean needs to go and take a big fat reality pill.
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Old 01-18-08, 11:46 PM   #10
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Superior training methods, strategy, motivation, coaching, equipment, teammates, leadership, and second chance in life to hone a specific-purpose physique--weighing every bite of food he put in his mouth for more than seven years so as to maximize his power to weight ratio, and ... he juiced too? How jejune.

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Old 01-19-08, 01:55 PM   #11
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Superior training methods, strategy, motivation, coaching, equipment, teammates, leadership, and second chance in life to hone a specific-purpose physique--weighing every bite of food he put in his mouth for more than seven years so as to maximize his power to weight ratio, and ... he juiced too? How jejune.



yep

Simply stated, he was just a force to be reckoned with. A phenomenon of our time who was bashed and accused with every slander the european media (mainly the french) could throw at him, and he came out smelling like a rose every time.
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Old 01-19-08, 03:58 PM   #12
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I am convinced that none of the winners in the last 20 years was clean. Only one had the courage to admit it at a later stage - Rijs.
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Old 01-19-08, 10:32 PM   #13
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nothing is clean anymore unfortunately...
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Old 01-20-08, 03:57 PM   #14
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So if everyone doped did that make the field even? If so, what advantage did Lance have if everyone else was doing the same thing? Maybe that's where his commitment to training gave him the advantage, dope or not.

To me he is still one of those rare athletes that come once a generation that is just a step better than his competitors.
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Old 01-20-08, 08:48 PM   #15
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no. listen to the way he "defends" doping. and then listen to clemens.

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Old 01-20-08, 08:59 PM   #16
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Rather poor, I think, to bash the brand based only on one's own prejudices, or even if it's true that the entire Western world and professional cycling has become increasingly morally- and ethically-challenged: that's just a slice of a slice of humanity. If you can't give someone like Lance the benefit of the doubt, at least apply a little reason and conclude that if everyone is doing it, then maybe Lance was unbeatable for so long precisely because he wasn't everyone.

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Old 01-21-08, 08:55 AM   #17
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Rather poor, I think, to bash the brand based only on one's own prejudices, or even if it's true that the entire Western world and professional cycling has become increasingly morally- and ethically-challenged: that's just a slice of a slice of humanity. If you can't give someone like Lance the benefit of the doubt, at least apply a little reason and conclude that if everyone is doing it, then maybe Lance was unbeatable for so long precisely because he wasn't everyone.

Good point. Perhaps so many others cheated because they knew they couldn't beat him when they were clean. Ullrich would be left off this list, as he apparently was doping before Armstrong began his winning streak.

Everyone with even a slight grip on reality knows that doping is rampant in cycling, as in many other sports. Where the slope gets slippery, is when you begin to lump all the participants together due to the indiscretions of a few. Every individual should be given the benefit of the doubt, until such time as they are proven guilty. Retesting of 7+ year-old urine specimins that have passed through multiple hands is not proof of guilt.
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Old 01-21-08, 11:13 PM   #18
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The elephant blows his brains out, Ulrich gets "the look" and is driven to drugs ... Lance was merciless; he probably did as much drugging as his buddy Eddie Merckx, equals ... zero

Last edited by wagathon; 01-22-08 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 01-22-08, 11:27 AM   #19
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Anyone who reckons Armstrong was clean needs to go and take a big fat reality pill.
would that be able to be detected by wada?
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Old 01-22-08, 11:57 AM   #20
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The elephant blows his brains out, Ulrich gets "the look" and is driven to drugs ... Lance was merciless; he probably did as much drugging as his buddy Eddie Merx, equals ... zero
You do know that Mercx tested positive right? He was booted from the Giro in 1969.
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Old 01-22-08, 01:48 PM   #21
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You do know that Mercx tested positive right? He was booted from the Giro in 1969.
You do know that this much cited positive was very dubious. Enough so that he was permitted to enter the TDF later that year. And really dominate the TDF as no one has even come close to since. Aside fro m some pretty huge irregularities in the testing there is the issue of this happening on a nothing stage.

Of course there was at least one other positive test result.
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Old 01-22-08, 10:43 PM   #22
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Lance tested positive in the 99 tour, but had an exemption due to cancer...can anyone fill in the details?
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Old 01-23-08, 03:17 AM   #23
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yes I believe in him, flame away if you like.
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Old 01-23-08, 07:33 AM   #24
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Personally, I don't think he "cheated".....per se....

Like a few others here , I just think that he was so motivated being given another chance at life, that he was so focused and trained like a mofo, that he was just that much better than the others....I mean, isn't it possible to have a special athlete rise up among the rest and just dominate? ... has that ever happened in the history of sports ??? Who knows.....I just tend to be on the "believe" side of the fence.

....and, of course, the argument of "if he was cheating, and the rest of the guys he was thumping were cheating".....
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Old 01-23-08, 10:49 AM   #25
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Personally, I don't think he "cheated".....per se....

Like a few others here , I just think that he was so motivated being given another chance at life, that he was so focused and trained like a mofo, that he was just that much better than the others....I mean, isn't it possible to have a special athlete rise up among the rest and just dominate? ... has that ever happened in the history of sports ??? Who knows.....I just tend to be on the "believe" side of the fence.

....and, of course, the argument of "if he was cheating, and the rest of the guys he was thumping were cheating".....
" ... a special athlete rise up among the rest and just dominate? ... has that ever happened in the history of sports ??? Who knows....."

e.g., Tiger Woods?
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