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  1. #1
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    So is Landis done?

    Did he win/lose with the Court of Arbitration? Amazingly Google doesn't know <gasp>.

  2. #2
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    We're supposed to find out in June or the middle of summer I think. It will be interesting.

  3. #3
    sch
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    There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
    processes testosterone for excretion. It seems that 15% of men in the group tested
    (145 volunteers) did not have the enzyme at all and 40% of these did not excrete
    enough testosterone even after an injection of the stuff for it to show up. So they
    would test neg regardless. At the other end 14% had two copies of the gene so
    had a 'superabundance' of the enzyme and thus were hyperexcretors of testosterone
    and were positive even in the absence of supplemental testosterone. That is they
    were always positive. If Floyd is in this latter group..... , he would ALWAYS test
    positive whether he took any or not.

    The rest of the bunch had one copy of the gene and 'normal' amounts of the enzyme
    and responded appropriately to testing (negative test in the absence of injected
    testosterone, positive test when injected.)

    Ref: Science News 3/29/008 p. 195

  4. #4
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    So was that the first drug test he ever took in his life?
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sch View Post
    There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
    processes testosterone for excretion. ...
    That's a very nice story, but as I'm sure you know, the results of that test were thrown out for Landis and did not factor in his suspension.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sch View Post
    There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
    processes testosterone for excretion. It seems that 15% of men in the group tested
    (145 volunteers) did not have the enzyme at all and 40% of these did not excrete
    enough testosterone even after an injection of the stuff for it to show up. So they
    would test neg regardless. At the other end 14% had two copies of the gene so
    had a 'superabundance' of the enzyme and thus were hyperexcretors of testosterone
    and were positive even in the absence of supplemental testosterone. That is they
    were always positive. If Floyd is in this latter group..... , he would ALWAYS test
    positive whether he took any or not.

    The rest of the bunch had one copy of the gene and 'normal' amounts of the enzyme
    and responded appropriately to testing (negative test in the absence of injected
    testosterone, positive test when injected.)

    Ref: Science News 3/29/008 p. 195
    Interesting,

    This would imply that the same standardized testing procedure would not be valid for all being tested. This further reinforces the need for longitudinal blood profiling.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hezz View Post
    This would imply that the same standardized testing procedure would not be valid for all being tested. This further reinforces the need for longitudinal blood profiling.
    Nice in theory, but what would you suggest as a standard for a positive result, and how would you insure the only possible way that could be achieved is through illegal methods? Remember, a few weeks ago everyone believed the only way to get a T:E ratio over 4 was through use of exogenous testosterone. Today, not so much.

  8. #8
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    Nice in theory, but what would you suggest as a standard for a positive result, and how would you insure the only possible way that could be achieved is through illegal methods? Remember, a few weeks ago everyone believed the only way to get a T:E ratio over 4 was through use of exogenous testosterone. Today, not so much.
    If you can't reliably test for something, it rather makes a farce out of the entire process. I understand and appreciate WADA's mission, but shouldn't they be concerned that they determine truth as they potentially ruin athletes' careers and reputations?
    The search for inner peace continues...

  9. #9
    Descends Like Avalanche HigherGround's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sch View Post
    There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
    processes testosterone for excretion. It seems that 15% of men in the group tested
    (145 volunteers) did not have the enzyme at all and 40% of these did not excrete
    enough testosterone even after an injection of the stuff for it to show up. So they
    would test neg regardless.
    At the other end 14% had two copies of the gene so
    had a 'superabundance' of the enzyme and thus were hyperexcretors of testosterone
    and were positive even in the absence of supplemental testosterone. That is they
    were always positive. If Floyd is in this latter group..... , he would ALWAYS test
    positive whether he took any or not.

    The rest of the bunch had one copy of the gene and 'normal' amounts of the enzyme
    and responded appropriately to testing (negative test in the absence of injected
    testosterone, positive test when injected.)

    Ref: Science News 3/29/008 p. 195
    If that were the case, Floyd would have failed all of his tests prior to the one after his infamous comeback stage.
    The rider in my avatar is David Etxebarria, not me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    Nice in theory, but what would you suggest as a standard for a positive result, and how would you insure the only possible way that could be achieved is through illegal methods? Remember, a few weeks ago everyone believed the only way to get a T:E ratio over 4 was through use of exogenous testosterone. Today, not so much.
    Very good points, it all points out that there seems to be no perfect method and of course the longitudinal profiling is not a pure cause and effect testing method but it does give a better indication of the riders long term normal blood characteristics.

  11. #11
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    If you can't reliably test for something, it rather makes a farce out of the entire process. I understand and appreciate WADA's mission, but shouldn't they be concerned that they determine truth as they potentially ruin athletes' careers and reputations?
    Sure. But they aren't.

    The way they handle this, you'd think they were getting a commission every time a positive turns up.

    Look at the rules. Nothing's to be released until the process is completed. That's not what happens. They can't wait to call the press to say, "We got another one!!!"

    This is why the riders need a strong union with a collective bargaining agreement to control these things. Now, the rider has no recourse. A big fat lawsuit would stop a lot of this nonsense.

    I agree they need to test. Without question. But it's done every day in companies and they do it without fanfare and with respect to the individual.

  12. #12
    bac
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    ... Brad

  13. #13
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Contrary to popular misbelief, the level of testosterone has never been an issue. It is well known that levels fluctuate wildly with all sorts of factors. The tests are to determine whether whatever T you have is all your own, or whether it is a metabolic product of a steroid.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    The tests are to determine whether whatever T you have is all your own, or whether it is a metabolic product of a steroid.
    Talk about misbelief.

  15. #15
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    Talk about misbelief.
    What an intelligent reply! Completely without content, yet with a suggestion of sanity. I stand in awe!
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

  16. #16
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    I swear it was that weird frosting on the Pop-Tarts.

  17. #17
    Senior Member tollhousecookie's Avatar
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    Landis...none the less

    None the less it was beutiful stage win on Mt. V. .....TDF 06
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Everyone has a mountain to climb... This one's mine.

  18. #18
    See You Down The Road
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    I loved watching the ride....old time break and dominate...but isn't also an advert. for "look what we can do if you let us dope up"..?

    It's really hard to watch again knowing somethings up.

    As for Landis....done....next.

  19. #19
    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
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    Is that day telecast anywhere. Even though it is suspect, it still was a beautiful thing to watch. The looks on peoples faces as he just blew by them.
    Brian | 2013 Cannondale SuperSix 5 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp | 2003 Trek 7300
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.

  20. #20
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Unfortunately yes.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  21. #21
    Large Member urodacus's Avatar
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    I hear from Floyd Landis that he is making a bit of a statement with his plans for a personal comeback this year.. he's going to be bandit riding the entire event, apart from the prologue. he says he'll be so fit that he won't need to sit in a pack all day, he'll be so strong that he'll be first over every mountain, and will be so fast that he'll take every stage. and he'll do it just in front of the (real) winner so that he'll be in every publicity shot too. priceless! we had to have another bottle of scotch after that admission, he was so hyped up.

    "what do I need another yellow jersey for? I've already got one, and I can't stand the color anyway" were his parting words as i waved good bye to him on the front porch last night.
    05 Giant TCR Composite; 83 Colnago Saronni: 81 San Rensho Katana Super Export track bike, #A116-56; 89 Zunow Pentaglia: SOLD; 85 Tommasini: SOLD; 83 Guerciotti: SOLD

  22. #22
    Senior Moment Member Gee3's Avatar
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    Even if he wins he's already done. All he can hope for is a token job with Rock Racing once he's legally able to sign with them, most likely as a director of some sort.
    This day will be over... one of these days!

    "I have cancer, cancer doesn't have me."
    Quote from a Kaiser commercial that reminds me of my mom.

  23. #23
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    CAS decision on monday!!!

  24. #24
    Double Prick marin1's Avatar
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    Fail
    21st Century Living - Matthew Good

  25. #25
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    The CAS attitude and decision on the case is very disturbing. To the point of making me feel that they were paid off. I am not saying I believe Floyd is innocent but they have so completely discounted several expert witnesses testimony that thier decision process cannot be taken seriously.

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