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Old 04-30-08, 11:06 PM   #1
jsmithepa
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So is Landis done?

Did he win/lose with the Court of Arbitration? Amazingly Google doesn't know <gasp>.
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Old 04-30-08, 11:26 PM   #2
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We're supposed to find out in June or the middle of summer I think. It will be interesting.
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Old 05-02-08, 10:13 PM   #3
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There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
processes testosterone for excretion. It seems that 15% of men in the group tested
(145 volunteers) did not have the enzyme at all and 40% of these did not excrete
enough testosterone even after an injection of the stuff for it to show up. So they
would test neg regardless. At the other end 14% had two copies of the gene so
had a 'superabundance' of the enzyme and thus were hyperexcretors of testosterone
and were positive even in the absence of supplemental testosterone. That is they
were always positive. If Floyd is in this latter group..... , he would ALWAYS test
positive whether he took any or not.

The rest of the bunch had one copy of the gene and 'normal' amounts of the enzyme
and responded appropriately to testing (negative test in the absence of injected
testosterone, positive test when injected.)

Ref: Science News 3/29/008 p. 195
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Old 05-02-08, 11:15 PM   #4
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So was that the first drug test he ever took in his life?
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Old 05-03-08, 06:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sch View Post
There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
processes testosterone for excretion. ...
That's a very nice story, but as I'm sure you know, the results of that test were thrown out for Landis and did not factor in his suspension.
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Old 05-03-08, 07:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sch View Post
There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
processes testosterone for excretion. It seems that 15% of men in the group tested
(145 volunteers) did not have the enzyme at all and 40% of these did not excrete
enough testosterone even after an injection of the stuff for it to show up. So they
would test neg regardless. At the other end 14% had two copies of the gene so
had a 'superabundance' of the enzyme and thus were hyperexcretors of testosterone
and were positive even in the absence of supplemental testosterone. That is they
were always positive. If Floyd is in this latter group..... , he would ALWAYS test
positive whether he took any or not.

The rest of the bunch had one copy of the gene and 'normal' amounts of the enzyme
and responded appropriately to testing (negative test in the absence of injected
testosterone, positive test when injected.)

Ref: Science News 3/29/008 p. 195
Interesting,

This would imply that the same standardized testing procedure would not be valid for all being tested. This further reinforces the need for longitudinal blood profiling.
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Old 05-03-08, 07:51 PM   #7
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This would imply that the same standardized testing procedure would not be valid for all being tested. This further reinforces the need for longitudinal blood profiling.
Nice in theory, but what would you suggest as a standard for a positive result, and how would you insure the only possible way that could be achieved is through illegal methods? Remember, a few weeks ago everyone believed the only way to get a T:E ratio over 4 was through use of exogenous testosterone. Today, not so much.
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Old 05-03-08, 08:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Nice in theory, but what would you suggest as a standard for a positive result, and how would you insure the only possible way that could be achieved is through illegal methods? Remember, a few weeks ago everyone believed the only way to get a T:E ratio over 4 was through use of exogenous testosterone. Today, not so much.
If you can't reliably test for something, it rather makes a farce out of the entire process. I understand and appreciate WADA's mission, but shouldn't they be concerned that they determine truth as they potentially ruin athletes' careers and reputations?
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Old 05-04-08, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sch View Post
There was a report out of the Karolinska Institute that described an enzyme that
processes testosterone for excretion. It seems that 15% of men in the group tested
(145 volunteers) did not have the enzyme at all and 40% of these did not excrete
enough testosterone even after an injection of the stuff for it to show up. So they
would test neg regardless.
At the other end 14% had two copies of the gene so
had a 'superabundance' of the enzyme and thus were hyperexcretors of testosterone
and were positive even in the absence of supplemental testosterone. That is they
were always positive. If Floyd is in this latter group..... , he would ALWAYS test
positive whether he took any or not.

The rest of the bunch had one copy of the gene and 'normal' amounts of the enzyme
and responded appropriately to testing (negative test in the absence of injected
testosterone, positive test when injected.)

Ref: Science News 3/29/008 p. 195
If that were the case, Floyd would have failed all of his tests prior to the one after his infamous comeback stage.
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Old 05-04-08, 12:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Nice in theory, but what would you suggest as a standard for a positive result, and how would you insure the only possible way that could be achieved is through illegal methods? Remember, a few weeks ago everyone believed the only way to get a T:E ratio over 4 was through use of exogenous testosterone. Today, not so much.
Very good points, it all points out that there seems to be no perfect method and of course the longitudinal profiling is not a pure cause and effect testing method but it does give a better indication of the riders long term normal blood characteristics.
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Old 05-08-08, 03:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
If you can't reliably test for something, it rather makes a farce out of the entire process. I understand and appreciate WADA's mission, but shouldn't they be concerned that they determine truth as they potentially ruin athletes' careers and reputations?
Sure. But they aren't.

The way they handle this, you'd think they were getting a commission every time a positive turns up.

Look at the rules. Nothing's to be released until the process is completed. That's not what happens. They can't wait to call the press to say, "We got another one!!!"

This is why the riders need a strong union with a collective bargaining agreement to control these things. Now, the rider has no recourse. A big fat lawsuit would stop a lot of this nonsense.

I agree they need to test. Without question. But it's done every day in companies and they do it without fanfare and with respect to the individual.
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Old 05-08-08, 11:31 AM   #12
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Old 05-08-08, 01:28 PM   #13
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Contrary to popular misbelief, the level of testosterone has never been an issue. It is well known that levels fluctuate wildly with all sorts of factors. The tests are to determine whether whatever T you have is all your own, or whether it is a metabolic product of a steroid.
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Old 05-08-08, 01:32 PM   #14
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The tests are to determine whether whatever T you have is all your own, or whether it is a metabolic product of a steroid.
Talk about misbelief.
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Old 05-08-08, 01:35 PM   #15
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Talk about misbelief.
What an intelligent reply! Completely without content, yet with a suggestion of sanity. I stand in awe!
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Old 05-08-08, 01:36 PM   #16
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I swear it was that weird frosting on the Pop-Tarts.
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Old 05-08-08, 03:41 PM   #17
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Landis...none the less

None the less it was beutiful stage win on Mt. V. .....TDF 06
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Old 05-21-08, 08:36 AM   #18
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I loved watching the ride....old time break and dominate...but isn't also an advert. for "look what we can do if you let us dope up"..?

It's really hard to watch again knowing somethings up.

As for Landis....done....next.
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Old 05-21-08, 05:54 PM   #19
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Is that day telecast anywhere. Even though it is suspect, it still was a beautiful thing to watch. The looks on peoples faces as he just blew by them.
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Old 06-03-08, 11:01 PM   #20
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Unfortunately yes.
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Old 06-04-08, 03:16 AM   #21
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I hear from Floyd Landis that he is making a bit of a statement with his plans for a personal comeback this year.. he's going to be bandit riding the entire event, apart from the prologue. he says he'll be so fit that he won't need to sit in a pack all day, he'll be so strong that he'll be first over every mountain, and will be so fast that he'll take every stage. and he'll do it just in front of the (real) winner so that he'll be in every publicity shot too. priceless! we had to have another bottle of scotch after that admission, he was so hyped up.

"what do I need another yellow jersey for? I've already got one, and I can't stand the color anyway" were his parting words as i waved good bye to him on the front porch last night.
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Old 06-05-08, 12:29 AM   #22
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Even if he wins he's already done. All he can hope for is a token job with Rock Racing once he's legally able to sign with them, most likely as a director of some sort.
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Old 06-27-08, 08:39 PM   #23
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CAS decision on monday!!!
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Old 06-30-08, 09:15 AM   #24
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Fail
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Old 06-30-08, 10:18 AM   #25
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The CAS attitude and decision on the case is very disturbing. To the point of making me feel that they were paid off. I am not saying I believe Floyd is innocent but they have so completely discounted several expert witnesses testimony that thier decision process cannot be taken seriously.
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