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Old 05-21-08, 06:27 PM   #1
Hezz
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More ITA win at Giro than FRA at TDF?

I have only been following the big bike races for a couple of years but I have noticed this trend that the Italians seem to be winning a lot more stages at the Giro than French riders win stages at the Tour de France. Are the Italians a lot more lax with doping controls or are there other factors that are effecting this. You would think that home boys would have a slight advantage on home roads with home crowds. But this does not seem to be born out as much with the TDF as with other races.
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Old 05-27-08, 07:41 AM   #2
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My only guess is that there are a greater percentage of riders of the Giro who are also Italian (thus a higher probability that any one of them who wins would be Italian), than there are French riders who ride the TdF.

Said/looked at another way ... more successful and non-native riders target the TdF as it is the queen tour of the three. Whereas the Giro is "the other big tour" (nothing against the Vuelta but it isn't on par with the Giro or TdF) it is a race coveted by Italian pros and their representation is massive (more than 1/3 I think?).

Don't think that lax dope controls have much to do with it per se but the Italians are right behind the Spainish in pushing the envelope (said by a Sicilian mind you) so there could well be some truth.

But I really think it comes down to how non-native riders target the TdF more than the Giro.
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Old 05-27-08, 10:30 AM   #3
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My only guess is that there are a greater percentage of riders of the Giro who are also Italian (thus a higher probability that any one of them who wins would be Italian), than there are French riders who ride the TdF.

Said/looked at another way ... more successful and non-native riders target the TdF as it is the queen tour of the three. Whereas the Giro is "the other big tour" (nothing against the Vuelta but it isn't on par with the Giro or TdF) it is a race coveted by Italian pros and their representation is massive (more than 1/3 I think?).

Don't think that lax dope controls have much to do with it per se but the Italians are right behind the Spainish in pushing the envelope (said by a Sicilian mind you) so there could well be some truth.

But I really think it comes down to how non-native riders target the TdF more than the Giro.
This makes a lot of sense. Looking at the roster I realize that there are a lot of Italian riders in the race. At least 1/3 of the riders out of the whole field seem to be from Italian teams. And of course, with some teams getting the late invite they were likely not as prepared. Also, riders who may be really good climbers but not so good at other disciplines may be on teams that are not as well known as the big name teams.
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Old 05-28-08, 09:35 PM   #4
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A couple reasons. The Giro is the B-level grand tour, and is not the priority race for anyone except some Italians (ie, those who get invited to the Giro and not the TdF). Thus, most riders -- including the top Italians -- target the TdF. This leaves a many motivated Italian riders shooting for the win.

Also, the French have had very, very strong anti-doping laws for a long time. They haven't won much of anything, lately...let alone anything big.
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Old 05-30-08, 05:08 PM   #5
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Question,

The French have now passed a law that makes it a crime to dope. In other words, if a racer is found doping they can be put in jail for up to a year in addition to any other sanctions. This would mean that non French riders would be subject to the law while riding in France.

Here's the catch. If a rider was found to be doping but did not dope while in the country of France can the French law be construed under international law to have jurisdiction. Say a riders dopes in America and his blood is effected to some degree. But he stops a couple of months before going to France. But in testing for the TDF or some other race something of an anomoly is shown but cannot be proven when and where it happened. Can the French think that their law is so sovereign that they can bring criminal charges for what a rider did in another country which was not a criminal offence.
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Old 05-30-08, 10:21 PM   #6
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They would need to prove that you doped in their country. This means a raid of the team bus/hotel. If they are caught from doping in another country, that person is shipped back to that country for punishment.

At least, I'm fairly sure...
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Old 06-01-08, 06:44 PM   #7
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Said/looked at another way ... more successful and non-native riders target the TdF as it is the queen tour of the three. Whereas the Giro is "the other big tour" (nothing against the Vuelta but it isn't on par with the Giro or TdF) it is a race coveted by Italian pros and their representation is massive (more than 1/3 I think?).
Unless you're Italian, at which point the TdF is "the other big tour".

The Giro has a higher percentage of Italians riding than the Tour has Frenchmen. And, the Giro has only been won once by a non-European in it's history. That has a lot to do with who shows up, and in what kind of numbers.
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Old 06-05-08, 06:49 AM   #8
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By "the other big tour" I wasn't emphasizing "other" but instead noting that the Giro is actually (in European's eyes) on a level of close parity to the TdF.

Someone called it a b level tour - not sure you've actually been to a european cycling event if you say this ... the giro is a classic (before this year's race which made it an even bigger classic). Europeans love the giro not just because of the history (Barto vs Coppi) that mirrors the epic battles of the TdF but because Italy as a host country has such a beauty that transcends the landscape itself. Italians love their "tour" but europeans respect it as one of two grand classics.

Now, I'm not saying the Giro is better than, or ranks higher than the TdF - it is close but slightly behind in some ways.

But the giro is by no means a b-level tour. Save that for the Vuelta, the Tours of Romandie, Switzerland, Poland and Germany (great race mind you) or the even lesser (c level) tours such as Eneco, Luxembourg, Belgium,
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