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  1. #26
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    The most level headed comments heard yet- and even then, there should be an opportunity for Landis to respond and clear himself.

    Koffee

  2. #27
    Senior Member Hambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCS2
    ok, I almost burst out laughing at that photo.......

    is that a cheese-eating surrender-monkey?

    hahah
    He did not always powder his rear before pleasuring the Gestapo-monkey. That sir, is a hero of l' Resistance.
    Last edited by Hambone; 07-27-06 at 02:59 PM.
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  3. #28
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    This 'positive' Floyd test is somewhat fishy...

    In 20 years of watching pro bike racing I've NEVER seen a rider test positive for high testosterone levels. Which would sort of indicate it's certainly not the method of choice for enhancing performance through clandestine means. Which sort of makes you wonder what's UP with this situation.

    I don't get it.

    If it doesn't add up, if it's not consistent - and I don't think this does - something's not right here, and that makes it easier to give Floyd SOME benefit of the doubt. EPO - that would be far less of a head scratcher than this. Can anyone cite another pro cyclist who got banned for testing positive for high testosterone? I can't think of one myself...

    Ah. Bicycle racing. What WOULD we do without non-stop doping scandals to pass the time...

  4. #29
    Tandem Vincitur Ritterview's Avatar
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    From the article:

    But most steroids are given in cycles [6-12 weeks] and in context of working out in a gym with weights. It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way. It doesn't make sense in terms of the pharmacology of the drug, and it really doesn't have the attributes that would be attractive to a cyclist -- particularly one running the risk of violating anti-doping regulations.

    Maybe there is hope in this. The drug doesn't fit the crime. If he wanted to crush everyone on the stage, he would have asked Amber to bring that bag of blood in the freezer when she arrived from San Diego, and his Hct would have taken a bump. Testosterone would seem to be a marginal benefit for the potential risk.

  5. #30
    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
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    I thought Chiapucci tested positive for testosterone

  6. #31
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneradtec
    I thought Chiapucci tested positive for testosterone
    If that's true, that's a reach- when did Claudio retire, 1994? In other words, steroids are NOT what cyclists do - it adds bulk and weight along with strength. Just doesn't add up weenies. Think about it.

    And THAT's why everyone is reading about this test result going 'Huh?'.

    Except Euro. And HE'S giving up cycling. So something positive has already come from this. Praise Be.

  7. #32
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    It's entirely possible that the testosterone was real but not deliberate.

    Tour riders get medication after every stage. IVs are common, and injections of vitamins and other things are common. As long as they aren't on the banned list, they're okay.

    It's possible that somebody made a mistake in this regimen. Or there could be contamination in some sort of "natural" remedy - that has caught a number of athletes in the past.

    The other alternative, of course, is that he *was* under regular injections, and either his natural level was a bit more elevated than normal, or he accidentally got multiple shots.

    I would like to believe that Landis is innocent...
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  8. #33
    Senior Member VegasVic's Avatar
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    Of course it is, the French are doing it. Floyd should just threaten them, they'll surrender, and it's the end of the story.

  9. #34
    Senior Member JonnyV's Avatar
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    cheese-eating surrender monkey! YES! It's about time I read a Grounds Keep Willy quote somewhere!
    Some people are just like Slinky's. Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

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  10. #35
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    I agree it's a bit odd. Any doc's care to explain what good boosting your testosterone for one day would do in something like this?
    Mike
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  11. #36
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron
    I agree it's a bit odd. Any doc's care to explain what good boosting your testosterone for one day would do in something like this?

    i'm pasting this from another forum i've been reading:



    this is what the WADA Dr. said on ESPN

    Q: For a cyclist, what's the benefit of elevated levels of testosterone? Why would a cyclist use it?

    A: It's certainly not one of the first-line drugs one thinks of for racing. Steroids can increase strength and improve recovery time and prevent the breakdown of muscle, maybe make him more assertive and aggressive. All of those could have some positive attribute. But most steroids are given in cycles [6-12 weeks] and in context of working out in a gym with weights. It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way. It doesn't make sense in terms of the pharmacology of the drug, and it really doesn't have the attributes that would be attractive to a cyclist -- particularly one running the risk of violating anti-doping regulations.

    Everybody knew the spotlight was on cycling. For eight years, the world has been watching cycling particularly closely. It would be the ultimate form of denial, or the ultimate sense of invincibility, to think you're going to evade that. And when the pharmacology of the drug doesn't really, in my judgment, seem like a drug of particular note to a cyclist, it doesn't really compute.

  12. #37
    Senior Member rufvelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericgu
    It's entirely possible that the testosterone was real but not deliberate.

    Tour riders get medication after every stage. IVs are common, and injections of vitamins and other things are common. As long as they aren't on the banned list, they're okay....

    I would like to believe that Landis is innocent...
    I too would like to believe he is clean. It is best for everyone.

    However what you're suggesting is that instead of being hooked up to that big bag marked 'SALINE' that evening, someone picked the one called 'TESTOSTERONE' instead ?

    By now, the Operation Puerto folks must surely have starting scanning for a Fuentes code like 'def mennonite'

  13. #38
    1.9lb/in pseudobrit's Avatar
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    Weightlifters use steroids in large part to decrease recovery time. They can lift every day instead of every other day. Cyclists use it for the same reason.

  14. #39
    Senior Member PrfectHair4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad
    If that's true, that's a reach- when did Claudio retire, 1994? In other words, steroids are NOT what cyclists do - it adds bulk and weight along with strength. Just doesn't add up weenies. Think about it.

    And THAT's why everyone is reading about this test result going 'Huh?'.

    Except Euro. And HE'S giving up cycling. So something positive has already come from this. Praise Be.
    When you take stuff like dbol, which rises your test levels, you actually burn fat faster and your muscles recover super quick. The type of muscles it builds are lean, not bulky. And, of course, it your strength increases.
    Im not claiming that Floyd is guilty or innocent, but raised test levels will definately help you ride.

  15. #40
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrfectHair4ever
    When you take stuff like dbol, which rises your test levels, you actually burn fat faster and your muscles recover super quick. The type of muscles it builds are lean, not bulky. And, of course, it your strength increases.
    Im not claiming that Floyd is guilty or innocent, but raised test levels will definately help you ride.
    but a one-off shot of testrostorine? don't think it would do much at all. everything i know about it (which isn't much granted) is that it's done on a cycle. increase the levels gradually and let your body adapt to the changes. surely it would have come up before in tests if that's what was going on.

    something does seem strange.

  16. #41
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    Yeah, we've been scratching our heads at work all day long. It really doesn't make sense. What would the benefits of higher testosterone levels be for a cyclist? Maybe muscle recovery because he kind of bonked the stage before?

  17. #42
    Senior Member PrfectHair4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way.

    Oh ya, I forgot he tested postive for just one day.
    When you are trying to raise your test levels, its not an instant thing. He would have had to be taking roids for at least a week or two for effects to set in.

  18. #43
    Junior Member tneedham's Avatar
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    Pretty good article here that explains how it would benefit a cyclist, and some insight from the author who spoke w/ Floyd today ... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...act/index.html ...
    <quote>
    Even before Landis finished Stage 17, when he pulled back most of the time he had lost the previous day, the whispers had begun. Allen Lim, Landis' trainer, took pains in the days that followed to point out that the effort put forth by Landis in that heroic, Tour-saving stage was generally in line with "what he's done in training." The anomaly had been the bonk the previous day.

    Then you read what German doctor Kurt Moosburger recently told Cyclingnews.com: "You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need -- depending on your training conditions -- up to three days in order to regenerate."

    To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

    Dr. Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone-replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."
    </quote>
    Last edited by tneedham; 07-27-06 at 03:41 PM.

  19. #44
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    I guess Phonak just plain stupid to suspend Floyd. IF it's fishy, Phonak will do everything to defend him.
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  20. #45
    1.9lb/in pseudobrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidcarbon
    I guess Phonak just plain stupid to suspend Floyd.
    They're obligated to suspend him.

  21. #46
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    Dianabol has an extremely high aromatization rate; therefore, the amount of testosterone in the body begins to convert to Estrogren. Furthermore, DBOL increases water retention and makes athletes look like water baloons.

    You can take Clomid tablets to decrease the effects; however, it still happens...

    Testosterone Ethanate, Ciponate(?), etc all have high aromatization rates and increases water retention. I have no idea why a cyclist would take any sort of Testosterone injections due to water retention.
    "Everything is possible, the impossible just takes a bit longer."

  22. #47
    Senior Member iamtim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad
    Except Euro. And HE'S giving up cycling. So something positive has already come from this. Praise Be.
    Ehr?

    Where did you read this?

  23. #48
    Senior Member PrfectHair4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahvaio
    Dianabol has an extremely high aromatization rate; therefore, the amount of testosterone in the body begins to convert to Estrogren. Furthermore, DBOL increases water retention and makes athletes look like water baloons.

    You can take Clomid tablets to decrease the effects; however, it still happens...

    Testosterone Ethanate, Ciponate(?), etc all have high aromatization rates and increases water retention. I have no idea why a cyclist would take any sort of Testosterone injections due to water retention.

    generally, dbol doesnt always baloon people out. moreover, taking clomid is pretty effective at reducing water retention.

  24. #49
    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    Gert Jan Theunisse, his nickname in the peloton was "testo"

  25. #50
    Senior Member lokerola's Avatar
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    What do you all think of thisfrom Timmhaan's quote from the WADA dr above about why a rider would take testosterone)
    "...maybe make him more assertive and aggressive"
    Did anyone else notice how angry Floyd seemed at the end of the comeback stage and at the end of the ITT? He seemed really pissed and, well, aggressive. I think I remmember him throwing his sunglasses at someone and it seemed like he was pushing people out of the way. I have grown to like Floyd and was really enjoying this years TdF. I hope to hell this isn't true, but the whole "aggressive" thing made my heart sink when I thought of his attitude at the end of those stages. Hopefully it was the pain and the heat of the moment.......
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