Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-27-06, 02:40 PM   #26
Guest
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
The most level headed comments heard yet- and even then, there should be an opportunity for Landis to respond and clear himself.

Koffee
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:43 PM   #27
Hambone
Senior Member
 
Hambone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bootiful Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: GT Edge for the road/Specialized Hopper (well the frame and the bb, everything else is new) for the dirt
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCS2
ok, I almost burst out laughing at that photo.......

is that a cheese-eating surrender-monkey?

hahah
He did not always powder his rear before pleasuring the Gestapo-monkey. That sir, is a hero of l' Resistance.

Last edited by Hambone; 07-27-06 at 02:59 PM.
Hambone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:50 PM   #28
patentcad
Peloton Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Bikes: 2013 Scott Foil, 2014 Scott Addict, 2008 Cervelo P3 (TT), 2015 Scott Scale 700SL MTB
Posts: 59,432
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
This 'positive' Floyd test is somewhat fishy...

In 20 years of watching pro bike racing I've NEVER seen a rider test positive for high testosterone levels. Which would sort of indicate it's certainly not the method of choice for enhancing performance through clandestine means. Which sort of makes you wonder what's UP with this situation.

I don't get it.

If it doesn't add up, if it's not consistent - and I don't think this does - something's not right here, and that makes it easier to give Floyd SOME benefit of the doubt. EPO - that would be far less of a head scratcher than this. Can anyone cite another pro cyclist who got banned for testing positive for high testosterone? I can't think of one myself...

Ah. Bicycle racing. What WOULD we do without non-stop doping scandals to pass the time...
patentcad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:52 PM   #29
Ritterview
Tandem Vincitur
 
Ritterview's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern California
Bikes: BMC Pro Machine SLC01, Specialized Globe, Burley Rock 'N Roll tandem, Calfee Dragonfly tandem.
Posts: 3,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From the article:

But most steroids are given in cycles [6-12 weeks] and in context of working out in a gym with weights. It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way. It doesn't make sense in terms of the pharmacology of the drug, and it really doesn't have the attributes that would be attractive to a cyclist -- particularly one running the risk of violating anti-doping regulations.

Maybe there is hope in this. The drug doesn't fit the crime. If he wanted to crush everyone on the stage, he would have asked Amber to bring that bag of blood in the freezer when she arrived from San Diego, and his Hct would have taken a bump. Testosterone would seem to be a marginal benefit for the potential risk.
Ritterview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:53 PM   #30
oneradtec
Coastal NC
 
oneradtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Bikes: 2004 Trek 5200 w/ Ultegra
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I thought Chiapucci tested positive for testosterone
oneradtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:57 PM   #31
patentcad
Peloton Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Bikes: 2013 Scott Foil, 2014 Scott Addict, 2008 Cervelo P3 (TT), 2015 Scott Scale 700SL MTB
Posts: 59,432
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneradtec
I thought Chiapucci tested positive for testosterone
If that's true, that's a reach- when did Claudio retire, 1994? In other words, steroids are NOT what cyclists do - it adds bulk and weight along with strength. Just doesn't add up weenies. Think about it.

And THAT's why everyone is reading about this test result going 'Huh?'.

Except Euro. And HE'S giving up cycling. So something positive has already come from this. Praise Be.
patentcad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:58 PM   #32
ericgu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's entirely possible that the testosterone was real but not deliberate.

Tour riders get medication after every stage. IVs are common, and injections of vitamins and other things are common. As long as they aren't on the banned list, they're okay.

It's possible that somebody made a mistake in this regimen. Or there could be contamination in some sort of "natural" remedy - that has caught a number of athletes in the past.

The other alternative, of course, is that he *was* under regular injections, and either his natural level was a bit more elevated than normal, or he accidentally got multiple shots.

I would like to believe that Landis is innocent...
__________________
Eric

2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
Like climbing? Goto http://www.bicycleclimbs.com
ericgu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:58 PM   #33
VegasVic
Senior Member
 
VegasVic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 4,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Of course it is, the French are doing it. Floyd should just threaten them, they'll surrender, and it's the end of the story.
VegasVic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 02:58 PM   #34
JonnyV
Senior Member
 
JonnyV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bellwood, Pa
Bikes: 2012 Fuji Altamira 1.0
Posts: 1,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
cheese-eating surrender monkey! YES! It's about time I read a Grounds Keep Willy quote somewhere!
JonnyV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:10 PM   #35
CastIron
Sensible shoes.
 
CastIron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: St. Paul,MN
Bikes: A few.
Posts: 8,799
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree it's a bit odd. Any doc's care to explain what good boosting your testosterone for one day would do in something like this?
__________________
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
It looks silly when you have quotes from other forum members in your signature. Nobody on this forum is that funny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
Why am I in your signature.
CastIron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:15 PM   #36
timmhaan
more ape than man
 
timmhaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nyc
Bikes:
Posts: 8,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CastIron
I agree it's a bit odd. Any doc's care to explain what good boosting your testosterone for one day would do in something like this?

i'm pasting this from another forum i've been reading:



this is what the WADA Dr. said on ESPN

Q: For a cyclist, what's the benefit of elevated levels of testosterone? Why would a cyclist use it?

A: It's certainly not one of the first-line drugs one thinks of for racing. Steroids can increase strength and improve recovery time and prevent the breakdown of muscle, maybe make him more assertive and aggressive. All of those could have some positive attribute. But most steroids are given in cycles [6-12 weeks] and in context of working out in a gym with weights. It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way. It doesn't make sense in terms of the pharmacology of the drug, and it really doesn't have the attributes that would be attractive to a cyclist -- particularly one running the risk of violating anti-doping regulations.

Everybody knew the spotlight was on cycling. For eight years, the world has been watching cycling particularly closely. It would be the ultimate form of denial, or the ultimate sense of invincibility, to think you're going to evade that. And when the pharmacology of the drug doesn't really, in my judgment, seem like a drug of particular note to a cyclist, it doesn't really compute.
timmhaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:19 PM   #37
rufvelo
Senior Member
 
rufvelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgu
It's entirely possible that the testosterone was real but not deliberate.

Tour riders get medication after every stage. IVs are common, and injections of vitamins and other things are common. As long as they aren't on the banned list, they're okay....

I would like to believe that Landis is innocent...
I too would like to believe he is clean. It is best for everyone.

However what you're suggesting is that instead of being hooked up to that big bag marked 'SALINE' that evening, someone picked the one called 'TESTOSTERONE' instead ?

By now, the Operation Puerto folks must surely have starting scanning for a Fuentes code like 'def mennonite'
__________________
rufvelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:21 PM   #38
pseudobrit
1.9lb/in
 
pseudobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Susquehanna shoreline
Bikes: LeMond, CAAD9/1
Posts: 1,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Weightlifters use steroids in large part to decrease recovery time. They can lift every day instead of every other day. Cyclists use it for the same reason.
pseudobrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:22 PM   #39
PrfectHair4ever
Senior Member
 
PrfectHair4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by patentcad
If that's true, that's a reach- when did Claudio retire, 1994? In other words, steroids are NOT what cyclists do - it adds bulk and weight along with strength. Just doesn't add up weenies. Think about it.

And THAT's why everyone is reading about this test result going 'Huh?'.

Except Euro. And HE'S giving up cycling. So something positive has already come from this. Praise Be.
When you take stuff like dbol, which rises your test levels, you actually burn fat faster and your muscles recover super quick. The type of muscles it builds are lean, not bulky. And, of course, it your strength increases.
Im not claiming that Floyd is guilty or innocent, but raised test levels will definately help you ride.
PrfectHair4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:25 PM   #40
timmhaan
more ape than man
 
timmhaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nyc
Bikes:
Posts: 8,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrfectHair4ever
When you take stuff like dbol, which rises your test levels, you actually burn fat faster and your muscles recover super quick. The type of muscles it builds are lean, not bulky. And, of course, it your strength increases.
Im not claiming that Floyd is guilty or innocent, but raised test levels will definately help you ride.
but a one-off shot of testrostorine? don't think it would do much at all. everything i know about it (which isn't much granted) is that it's done on a cycle. increase the levels gradually and let your body adapt to the changes. surely it would have come up before in tests if that's what was going on.

something does seem strange.
timmhaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:26 PM   #41
alreadyblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NYC area
Bikes: Specialized Allez
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, we've been scratching our heads at work all day long. It really doesn't make sense. What would the benefits of higher testosterone levels be for a cyclist? Maybe muscle recovery because he kind of bonked the stage before?
alreadyblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:27 PM   #42
PrfectHair4ever
Senior Member
 
PrfectHair4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmhaan
It makes no sense to me why an athlete would take testosterone the day of a race when it doesn't work that way.

Oh ya, I forgot he tested postive for just one day.
When you are trying to raise your test levels, its not an instant thing. He would have had to be taking roids for at least a week or two for effects to set in.
PrfectHair4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:27 PM   #43
tneedham
Junior Member
 
tneedham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: north central Massachusetts
Bikes: Specialized Stumpjumper FSR '04, '05 Roubaix Elite
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pretty good article here that explains how it would benefit a cyclist, and some insight from the author who spoke w/ Floyd today ... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...act/index.html ...
<quote>
Even before Landis finished Stage 17, when he pulled back most of the time he had lost the previous day, the whispers had begun. Allen Lim, Landis' trainer, took pains in the days that followed to point out that the effort put forth by Landis in that heroic, Tour-saving stage was generally in line with "what he's done in training." The anomaly had been the bonk the previous day.

Then you read what German doctor Kurt Moosburger recently told Cyclingnews.com: "You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need -- depending on your training conditions -- up to three days in order to regenerate."

To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr. Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone-replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."
</quote>

Last edited by tneedham; 07-27-06 at 03:41 PM.
tneedham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:30 PM   #44
rapidcarbon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Annandale, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess Phonak just plain stupid to suspend Floyd. IF it's fishy, Phonak will do everything to defend him.
rapidcarbon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:31 PM   #45
pseudobrit
1.9lb/in
 
pseudobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Susquehanna shoreline
Bikes: LeMond, CAAD9/1
Posts: 1,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapidcarbon
I guess Phonak just plain stupid to suspend Floyd.
They're obligated to suspend him.
pseudobrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:34 PM   #46
dahvaio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern California
Bikes: Trek Madone 5.9 SL
Posts: 498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dianabol has an extremely high aromatization rate; therefore, the amount of testosterone in the body begins to convert to Estrogren. Furthermore, DBOL increases water retention and makes athletes look like water baloons.

You can take Clomid tablets to decrease the effects; however, it still happens...

Testosterone Ethanate, Ciponate(?), etc all have high aromatization rates and increases water retention. I have no idea why a cyclist would take any sort of Testosterone injections due to water retention.
dahvaio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:37 PM   #47
iamtim
Senior Member
 
iamtim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes: 2012 Motobecane Vent Noir; 2016 Mercier Kilo TT Pro
Posts: 3,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by patentcad
Except Euro. And HE'S giving up cycling. So something positive has already come from this. Praise Be.
Ehr?

Where did you read this?
iamtim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:44 PM   #48
PrfectHair4ever
Senior Member
 
PrfectHair4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahvaio
Dianabol has an extremely high aromatization rate; therefore, the amount of testosterone in the body begins to convert to Estrogren. Furthermore, DBOL increases water retention and makes athletes look like water baloons.

You can take Clomid tablets to decrease the effects; however, it still happens...

Testosterone Ethanate, Ciponate(?), etc all have high aromatization rates and increases water retention. I have no idea why a cyclist would take any sort of Testosterone injections due to water retention.

generally, dbol doesnt always baloon people out. moreover, taking clomid is pretty effective at reducing water retention.
PrfectHair4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:50 PM   #49
socalrider
Senior Member
 
socalrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Upland, CA
Bikes: Litespeed Liege, Motorola Team Issue Eddy Mercxk, Surly Crosscheck Cyclocross bike, Fisher Supercaliber Mtn. Bike
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Gert Jan Theunisse, his nickname in the peloton was "testo"
socalrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-06, 03:55 PM   #50
lokerola
Senior Member
 
lokerola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Alexandria VA
Bikes: Specialized Allez Comp Cro-Mo
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What do you all think of thisfrom Timmhaan's quote from the WADA dr above about why a rider would take testosterone)
"...maybe make him more assertive and aggressive"
Did anyone else notice how angry Floyd seemed at the end of the comeback stage and at the end of the ITT? He seemed really pissed and, well, aggressive. I think I remmember him throwing his sunglasses at someone and it seemed like he was pushing people out of the way. I have grown to like Floyd and was really enjoying this years TdF. I hope to hell this isn't true, but the whole "aggressive" thing made my heart sink when I thought of his attitude at the end of those stages. Hopefully it was the pain and the heat of the moment.......
__________________
Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now.




lokerola is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:42 PM.