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Old 07-27-06, 04:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by lokerola
What do you all think of thisfrom Timmhaan's quote from the WADA dr above about why a rider would take testosterone)
"...maybe make him more assertive and aggressive"
Did anyone else notice how angry Floyd seemed at the end of the comeback stage and at the end of the ITT? He seemed really pissed and, well, aggressive. I think I remmember him throwing his sunglasses at someone and it seemed like he was pushing people out of the way. I have grown to like Floyd and was really enjoying this years TdF. I hope to hell this isn't true, but the whole "aggressive" thing made my heart sink when I thought of his attitude at the end of those stages. Hopefully it was the pain and the heat of the moment.......
Oh my God. If he had been doping with high enough doses to have 'roid rage he'd have tested off the charts.

The amount of idle and uninformed wild speculation regarding this subject is beating out the nationalistic/racist conspiracy theories by a ratio of 4:1, which is also atypical.
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Old 07-27-06, 04:03 PM   #52
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He tested positive only on one day... this has no relation to how many times he used it. You guys have to abandon this "testing negative means I never used" theory.

As for tests use in cycling; of course it works. Look at the difference between the top men and women cyclists and think for yourself.
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Old 07-27-06, 04:13 PM   #53
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This article appeared on cyclingnews.com on July 7 (3 weeks ago):

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...l06/jul07news3

German doctor Kurt Moosburger, who has looked after Jörg Jaksche (among others) for the past two years, has told dpa that he believes that performance enhancing drugs are "indispensable" for high level cycling

In a frank interview, Moosburger pointed to the average speeds of modern professional races, especially hard tours. "The average in last year's Tour was 41 kilometres per hour - that is incredible. You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need - depending on your training conditions - up to three days in order to regenerate."

To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."
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Old 07-27-06, 04:17 PM   #54
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You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours.

Do you want me to pull it off fast or slow?
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Old 07-27-06, 04:25 PM   #55
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According to what I've heard his testosterone levels were not abnomally high. In fact he had reetively low levels. What was out of whack was the ratio of testosterone to another hormone (can't rememberthe name. Something like estrogen). A guy on ESPN said he had abnormally low levels of this other hormone. His ratio was 11:1. Based on what that guy was saying it doesn't sound like doping.
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Old 07-27-06, 04:29 PM   #56
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Floyd could have taken steriods to help with the hip injury, aren't they supposed to reduce inflammation and pain in sports injuries.
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Old 07-27-06, 04:29 PM   #57
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I believe Santiago Botero tested for high testosterone levels in '99...maybe '00? And I think it was later proven that is just has a naturally high testosterone level.
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Old 07-27-06, 04:40 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girlyman
According to what I've heard his testosterone levels were not abnomally high. In fact he had reetively low levels. What was out of whack was the ratio of testosterone to another hormone (can't rememberthe name. Something like estrogen). A guy on ESPN said he had abnormally low levels of this other hormone. His ratio was 11:1. Based on what that guy was saying it doesn't sound like doping.
It's epitestosterone, and the ratio limit of 6:1 (testosterone:epitestosterone) was lowered to 4:1 for this year.

Like the 50% hematocrit limit, it simply gives the dopers a limit on how much they can cheat.
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Old 07-27-06, 04:56 PM   #59
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Uh, it was just an observation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudobrit
Oh my God. If he had been doping with high enough doses to have 'roid rage he'd have tested off the charts.

The amount of idle and uninformed wild speculation regarding this subject is beating out the nationalistic/racist conspiracy theories by a ratio of 4:1, which is also atypical.
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Old 07-27-06, 05:14 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by lokerola
Uh, it was just an observation.
Sorry, I didn't mean to single you out; I must be getting a little burned out from reading the mix of nonsense and hate in the other thread.
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Old 07-27-06, 05:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Coppi51
I believe Santiago Botero tested for high testosterone levels in '99...maybe '00? And I think it was later proven that is just has a naturally high testosterone level.

and his doctor was. . .
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Old 07-27-06, 05:37 PM   #62
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It's important to point out at this stage that no French rider has tested positive for testosterone...
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Old 07-27-06, 05:39 PM   #63
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Time to start burning cars.
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Old 07-27-06, 05:40 PM   #64
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And if it wasn't for the French, Americans might be British.

*runs and hides*
We'd be the less exotic Australia
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Old 07-27-06, 05:46 PM   #65
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I'm waiting until the actual results come in before I believe all the heresay going on....
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Old 07-27-06, 06:01 PM   #66
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and his doctor was. . .

haha...yeah, it was Fuentes
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Old 07-27-06, 06:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by patentcad
In 20 years of watching pro bike racing I've NEVER seen a rider test positive for high testosterone levels. Which would sort of indicate it's certainly not the method of choice for enhancing performance through clandestine means. Which sort of makes you wonder what's UP with this situation.
I personally know and/or raced against riders who tested postive for high testosterone levels. Admittedly they are dumbasses but that is beside the point. Only poor hacks get caught for testosterone. The big hitters have bigger and better armouries.

Last edited by classic1; 07-28-06 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 07-27-06, 07:12 PM   #68
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I thought that America is the melting pot of the world. We have French, Germans, Russians, Brits, English, Irish etc. It seems that just about every nationality owns a piece of the States. Oh well just another useless post.
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Old 07-27-06, 07:22 PM   #69
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I believe this is a current photo of the CESM that conducted Floyd's piss test.

Still more intelligent than the stock you lot are from:
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Old 07-27-06, 07:40 PM   #70
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Old 07-27-06, 07:44 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudobrit
It's epitestosterone, and the ratio limit of 6:1 (testosterone:epitestosterone) was lowered to 4:1 for this year.

Like the 50% hematocrit limit, it simply gives the dopers a limit on how much they can cheat.
Unfortunately it is a statistical limit, not an absolute one. People will be out past the "legal" limit for completely natural, unenhanced reasons. The wife and I had a female friend who had to shave every day due to a testosterone imbalance and she was definately all female. Just why I am sure I can't say as BF is a family site.
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Old 07-27-06, 08:04 PM   #72
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Unfortunately it is a statistical limit, not an absolute one. People will be out past the "legal" limit for completely natural, unenhanced reasons. The wife and I had a female friend who had to shave every day due to a testosterone imbalance and she was definately all female. Just why I am sure I can't say as BF is a family site.
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Old 07-27-06, 08:04 PM   #73
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The French seem to have done it to Armstrong too. Just see his statements for details. The manager of the lab that does the tests says that he has been "forced" to fake some test results on pain of losing the contract to do the testing.
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Old 07-27-06, 08:15 PM   #74
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>>Testosterone can build muscle and improve recovery time when used over a period of several weeks, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. But if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the tour would have been affected, he said.

"So something's missing here," Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up."<<

Like the man said. It JUST DOESN'T ADD UP.
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Old 07-27-06, 08:16 PM   #75
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First of all, I'm biased. I want Floyd to be innocent.

With that said, I heard the same ESPN report someone mentioned earlier. Said that the testosterone level wasn't high so much as the epitestosterone level was really low. That still puts the ratio beyond the 6:1 threshold, but not because the testosterone levels are high. Also heard cortisone (sp?) shots which he was taking for pain may play a part. Alcohol may affect the test as well according to ESPN's cycling guru. Of course, I admit that I really want all of that to be the case. Only time will really tell.
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