Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Professional Cycling For the Fans
Reload this Page >

Let's talk about Floyd's test results here

Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Let's talk about Floyd's test results here

Old 07-28-06, 09:29 AM
  #126  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Piedmont, CA
Posts: 584

Bikes: '04 LeMond Buenos Aires

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Walter
Also reporting that the actual testesterone level was low and the epi level real low. I'm not a biochemist but like John Eustice I don't see how a low testesterone level no matter the ratio is a performance enhancer.
EXACTLY - the test seems bogus. If in fact his testosterone was LOW, where's the performance enhancement? And every media report I've read or heard keeps saying his testosterone was HIGH - so no one understands that they tested for a RATIO. There's two ways to trigger the test result: too high testosterone, or too low epitestosterone. Seems to me only one of those options could conceivably be performance-enhancing.

Since the info "leaked" that someone tested positive, wouldn't it be nice if the rest of the facts regarding the test (actual ratio and levels) were also reported semi-accurately?
Allen H is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 09:34 AM
  #127  
Senior Member
 
Thulsadoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cape Vincent, NY
Posts: 1,385

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac Expert, 2002 TREK 520, Schwinn Mesa WINTER BIKE, Huffy Rock Creek 29er, 1970s-era Ross ten speed. All my bikes are highly modified(except the Tarmac) yet functional, and generally look beat to ****. .

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by robot
i'm no doctor, but i have spent my fair share of time in bars...from my expert alcohol opinion, through the course of the evening, all the men in the bar tend to get a bit more aggresive the more alcohol they consume (beer muscles anyone?) i'm pretty sure it is a proven fact that alcohol can affect certain people to become more violent/aggresive...is this because of an increase of testosterone? i have no medical data to back this up, but i do spend too much time in bars with many alcohol induced "badasses"
Definitely something to consider. I'm sort of the same way, I'm certainly no doctor, but I'm pretty confident that I can make a few observations concerning drinking.

Here's a guy who is completely drained, both mentally and physically, after stage 16. Hugely emotional let down. He's obviously not a heavy drinker, and is physically just a small guy at 150 pounds. A couple of beers to start, then at least 4 shots of whiskey on top of that. I'm a confirmed whiskey drinker myself, and as far as I'm concerned, whiskey is the heroin of alcohols. If you want to get away from life in a hurry, which means that if you really want to get f*cked up quick, whiskey is a the way to do it.

Put it all together, the stress, the fatigue, the fact that I doubt he has a high tolerance for alcohol........I bet he was pretty buzzed indeed. When he went to sleep, or passed out, or whatever, I bet his body took over completely, because his mind was pretty much gone.

Then there's the fact that it was Jack he was doing shots of. Again, I'm speaking from experience. There's something a little different about Jack Daniels whiskey. Jack will land you in jail. Some people can drink it with no problem, myself, I won't touch it unless I'm in very mellow state of mind. I'm a Jim Beam drinker mostly, and virtually never have a problem with Beam. But Jack.....gets me into trouble. Seems to trigger the worst in me. (testoserone?)

I have to wonder if his body was turning itself inside out all night, I.E., did the alcohol have a profoundly physiological on him? I'd love to believe it. But I wonder what it would do to all others who have been accused of doping, if it was proven that the alcohol was what did it to Floyd...
Thulsadoom is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 09:40 AM
  #128  
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
Robbie McEwen this year, eh? Now that McEwen dude, HE may be on steroids, 'roid rage and all : ).
Actually, from what I hear he is the most likely to be clean. No, really. All that anger..and clean!!!!
classic1 is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 09:41 AM
  #129  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Big roid defense lawyers must be frothing! This will take a long time and a lot of $ to resolve if b samp is pos.
jqnj is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 09:45 AM
  #130  
Go Titans!!
 
sunninho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Culver City, CA
Posts: 2,489

Bikes: '04 Eddy Merckx Team SC - Record - Rolf Prima Vigor; Andy Hampsten Cinghiale - Dura Ace 7800 - Rolf Elan Aero

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Maybe a little too much Coke with the Jack?
__________________
One must live the way one thinks or end up thinking the way one has lived.
--Paul Bourget
sunninho is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 09:55 AM
  #131  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah, but how could alcohol lower Landis' epitestosterone? Isn't that the question now?
dfrank is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 10:17 AM
  #132  
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Walter
Also reporting that the actual testesterone level was low and the epi level real low. I'm not a biochemist but like John Eustice I don't see how a low testesterone level no matter the ratio is a performance enhancer.

Then again maybe it is.
Source?

Right now ABC is reporting that Floyds Testosterone level was high. I've not seen any news report saying his level was low, just many of the more professional ones mearly reporting that the test that is 'positive' is for the ratios. I've seen nothing even implying the actual level is low. There is only an implication from silence that the testosterone level is not beyond allowable levels. That is not low or even normal.
Keith99 is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 10:29 AM
  #133  
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,271

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1426 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times in 351 Posts
Originally Posted by Keith99
Source?

Right now ABC is reporting that Floyds Testosterone level was high. I've not seen any news report saying his level was low, just many of the more professional ones mearly reporting that the test that is 'positive' is for the ratios. I've seen nothing even implying the actual level is low. There is only an implication from silence that the testosterone level is not beyond allowable levels. That is not low or even normal.
The WSJ article just refers to the ratio, and doesn't say the level is high or low.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 10:32 AM
  #134  
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
 
Walter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE Florida, USA aka the Treasure Coast
Posts: 5,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts
John Eustice reporting for ESPN which is owned by ABC.
__________________
“Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Walter is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 10:51 AM
  #135  
My toilet-Floyd's future
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yep! This is part of the reason why I no longer believe he is guilty.
Look deep into yourself. Would you think the same if this was Carlos Sastre?
__________________
EURO is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 10:58 AM
  #136  
No one carries the DogBoy
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Upper Midwest USA
Posts: 2,320

Bikes: Roubaix Expert Di2, Jamis Renegade, Surly Disc Trucker, Cervelo P2, CoMotion Tandem

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by EURO
Look deep into yourself. Would you think the same if this was Carlos Sastre?
Yes. The scenario simply does not make sense. The drug doesn't fit the need. I happen to believe that cyclists and their doctors are some of the smartest and most sophisticated dopers out there. To pull a boneheaded move like using testosterone in such a way that it would not be helpful but would be easily detected would be highly unlikely. For that reason I think its likely that this anomalous result is not one that indicates unacceptable use of steroids.
DogBoy is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 10:58 AM
  #137  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
The WSJ is quoting a source close to the PHonak team that Landis' T/E ratio was 11 to 1 (4 to 1 = positive) Looks like the natural occurring/jack daniels/ dehydration argument has an uphill battle.
First of all, YOU have not seen the actual test results. The French lab illegally gave the test results to the Times of London, but did not send one to you.

The leading expert on testing for these ratios, and for testing whether the ratio is the result of natural biology, or is the result of doping is Don Catlin, the director of the WADA- accredited drug-testing laboratory here in the USA. And, Catlin has termed the premature leaking of a preliminary test result by the French lab as "tragic".

Catlin has said "It's possible to have a T/E ratio of over six and still not have taken testosterone. Further, Catlin is aware that the traditional methods of deriving a T/E ratio are notoriously unreliable. With those methods, figuring out whether the ratio was "natural" or the result of doping would require that a series of four urine samples be taken over a number of days, and then attempting to guestimate from the pattern of results of four days of testing what the person's natural ratio is. That process is complicated by the fact that drinking alcohol, and taking various medication can easily jump someone's ratio from 4:1 on Monday to 12:1 on Tuesday.

Catlin helped develop a better method of testing using a carbon-isotope test. This method is complex and expensive, requiring more expensive lab equipment, and better trained lab staff. IF (and ONLY if) the carbon-isotope test is correctly performed, it is possible to detect that the T/E ratio is the result of doping, rather than natural biological variations.

The fact that the French lab leaked the results to the press BEFORE the "B" sample was testing, BEFORE the three required follow-up samples were taken, and BEFORE Landis was permitted to have his doctors supply information about the medications he is taking (with approval) for his hip and thyroid problems is a gross violation of WADA's own rules, UCI rules, and laws protecting the privacy rights of the persons being tested.

The outrageous misconduct of the French lab caused Catlin to say: "It's...tragic this even got out." Catlin is one of the few people in the world to fully grasp how unreliable that preliminary "A" sample test is, without the three required follow-up samples, and without carbon-isotope ratio testing by a lab that has demonstrated its trustworthness and reliability with that method.

Prediction: when this is all over, in six months, ten months, a year...Landis will own the yellow jersey he was wearing on the podium last Sunday. But, the staff of the French lab will have succeeded in doing what they did to Lance Armstrong last August, with another "leak" of untrustworthy testing information. They will have placed a permanent cloud over the greatest even in the life of Floyd Landis.
alanbikehouston is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:15 AM
  #138  
Senior Member
 
Mojo GoGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Honeoye Falls, NY
Posts: 591

Bikes: Specialized Allez, Madone 5.2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Does anyone know what the effect of excessive sustained activity (say like a 3 week stage race) does to ones hormone levels.

I'm wondering because even if his test levels were "normal" and his epitest levels were "very low" I'm not sure that it really means anything other than the levels were abnormal. For example, if under severe stress both test and epitest levels decrease (temporarily until the stress is over) the result would appear to suggest normal epitest behavior and possible doping that spiked the test levels back up to what would be "normal" in a non-stress situation. Then again, maybe some of the medication relating to his hip could have caused a spurious result although similar results might be expected in prior stages or results from prior races...

Just curious...

Last edited by Mojo GoGo; 07-28-06 at 11:29 AM.
Mojo GoGo is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:31 AM
  #139  
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Does anyone know what the effect of excessive sustained activity (say like a 3 week stage race) does to ones hormone levels.
It is my understanding that whatever direct effect such activity has on testosterone, it also has a proportional effect on epitestosterone, and, so, the T/E ratio should not be affected.

However, in the case of someone with hypothyroidism, what can be affected is the production of SHBG, a protein that testosterone binds with in order to be biologically processed. A hypothyroid condition can lead to a reduction in the production of SHBG, which in turn can lead to a relative excess of testosterone, and, thus, a high T/E ratio.
Helmet Head is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:34 AM
  #140  
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,271

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1426 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times in 351 Posts
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
First of all, YOU have not seen the actual test results. The French lab illegally gave the test results to the Times of London, but did not send one to you.
Dude,
All I did was pass on some information from a credible source that I thought others might find interesting. No need to attack me.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:38 AM
  #141  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
a day after his hugest bonk...of course his body will react differently than if he never
bonked and went so low. much like ketones...if you have a strong ride but still have power
left, you won't have many ketones...but if you bonk hard and push through it, your urine
will have higher amounts. same deal with the endocrine system....going way deep will
change the balance and can make normal things go haywire.

I think he is innocent, and he's just one mean dog on the bike when motivated. he's always
been a killer
edzo is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:41 AM
  #142  
8speed DinoSORAs
 
Ed Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrkott3r
This thread is just stupid.
True, but that does little to single it out from many, many others


I can make a full justification for my contribution, based on a genetic predisposition for French bashing....


....I'm English


The love hate relationship between folks either side of the English channel has a healthy 900+ year history, after all.

Bonjour,

Ed
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Ed Holland is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:48 AM
  #143  
Senior Member
 
Mojo GoGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Honeoye Falls, NY
Posts: 591

Bikes: Specialized Allez, Madone 5.2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
It is my understanding that whatever direct effect such activity has on testosterone, it also has a proportional effect on epitestosterone, and, so, the T/E ratio should not be affected.

However, in the case of someone with hypothyroidism, what can be affected is the production of SHBG, a protein that testosterone binds with in order to be biologically processed. A hypothyroid condition can lead to a reduction in the production of SHBG, which in turn can lead to a relative excess of testosterone, and, thus, a high T/E ratio.
Thanks for the info, my question had more to do with "would T/E levels elevate, remain constant, or reduce with heavy physical workload". I was not really concerned about the ratio... If the levels remain constant or go up it is unlikely that he doped as based on what I've read (which of course is always accurate ) his test levels were not high. If T/E levels go down then (proportionately) then he would need to explain how the ratio varied. Doping is one possibility and you mention another possibility as well.

Unfortunately, either way cycling as a sport loses.
Mojo GoGo is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:48 AM
  #144  
RIP Gonzo
 
So Cal commuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca(that's south San diego
Posts: 200

Bikes: 2001 Novara Randonee, 1991 Trek 8000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Holland
It's important to point out at this stage that no French rider has tested positive for testosterone...

Of course he tested high for testosterone...My wife would have high testosterone levels compared to the French.
So Cal commuter is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:54 AM
  #145  
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
To wit:

>>Tour champion Landis pleads innocence, says testosterone naturally produced
by Chris Wright
July 28, 2006
MADRID (AFP) - America's Tour de France winner Floyd Landis, facing the loss of his title in a doping scandal, insisted again he was innocent.

The 30-year-old rider said that his positive test for testosterone showed up levels which "are absolutely natural and produced by my own organism".

Landis said he was in Madrid to consult with his legal team and added he was willing to undergo whatever tests the sport's authorities asked of him to establish his innocence.


"Until such research has been carried out I ask not to be judged and much less to be sentenced by anyone," Landis told a news conference at a Madrid hotel.

"I'd like to make it absolutely clear that I'm not in any doping process," he added.

"I will proceed to undergo all of these tests" to show the levels "are absolutely natural and produced by my own organism," he promised.

The American added that he wished to state "categorically that my Tour win was exclusively due to many years of training and dedication" to his sport.

Landis said he was in Spain "for meetings to establish a plan" to respond to the doping allegations and that he and his entourage would "explain to the world why this is not a doping case but a natural occurrence."

Landis, who is facing the sack from his Phonak team if the B sample confirms the first result, passed on medical questions to his lawyer, Jose Maria Buxeda, who is also the lawyer for Spanish racer Roberto Heras, caught doping on the 2005 Tour of Spain.

If he is stripped of his Tour de France title he would be the first ever champion to suffer that fate.

"I came here to tell you my point of view," said Landis, who succeeded compatriot Lance Armstrong on the winners podium.

Armstrong has also repeatedly been questioned over how he managed to come back from life-threatening cancer to land his championship-winning performances but has never tested positive for doping.

"I am proud of the fact that I won the tour because I was the strongest candidate - that's my position," Landis said, adding he would be pushing for the B probe to be carried out as soon as possible at the French laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry.

Landis said Thursday in an interview with US magazine Sports Illustrated that the abnormally high Testosterone/Epitestosteron ratio which showed up after his staggering solo 130km breakaway win in race stage 17 could be due to a thyroid problem or possibly to have occurred naturally.

The day before he had collapsed on the 16th stage and had tumbled down to 11th place overall, 8:08mins behind Spaniard Oscar Pereiro.

The Spaniard, who finished second overall, will be promoted to champion if Landis is kicked out.

In the interview he admitted he "can't be hopeful" of the outcome.

During the Tour Landis was given special dispensation to take cortisone shots for hip pain. He faces surgery on the hip for what is a degenerative condition, while he also took oral medication for hyperthyroid problems.

Landis and his doctor are investigating whether those products, given the green light by organisers, could have altered his testosterone levels.

Insisting he would keep fighting his corner, Landis concluded: "My intention is to compete normally during this year," depending on the outcome of the expected hip operation.<<
patentcad is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:56 AM
  #146  
370H-SSV-0773H
 
linux_author's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Penniless Park, Fla.
Posts: 2,750

Bikes: Merlin Fortius, Specialized Crossroads & Rockhopper, Serotta Fierte, Pedal Force RS2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Q: How many generations does it take to learn ingratitude?






A: Trois
linux_author is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:56 AM
  #147  
Crankenstein
 
bmclaughlin807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Spokane
Posts: 4,038

Bikes: Novara Randonee (TankerBelle)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Keith99
Finally some interesting speculation. I'm also interested in which way a bonk would tend to push things. And of course the already mentioned Testosterone level. If actually normal (as opposed to 'within acceptable limits') it would tend to help Floyd.
Dehydration pushes the ratio out of balance towards testosterone. He was pretty dehydrated the day before (When he bonked) ... that was why he was dumping all those bottles of water on his head, to prevent a repeat occurance by minimizing sweating.

So... no, he didn't have HIGH levels, it was actually kind of low... what was 'HIGH' was the ratio... so his epitestosterone was really low.

And the media doesn't give a $%&# what they're doing to the sport... they just found some sensational headlines... hell, I had to come on here to find out who won the tour.... but damned if it wasn't all over the news in like 30 seconds that he'd failed the first step of the drug test. Actually the headlines were more like "LANDIS GUILTY OF DRUG USE!!!!!!!!!"


What the #$%^ ever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country?
__________________
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
bmclaughlin807 is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:57 AM
  #148  
Riding behind enemy lines
 
iluvfreebeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Occupied Texas
Posts: 408

Bikes: Orbea, Trek, Cadex, Colnago, Schwinn, Specialized, Poghliaghi, Kellog, KHS, Kellog, Litespeed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Holland
It's important to point out at this stage that no French rider has tested positive for testosterone...
Good point, as they have no balls.
__________________
------------------------------------

Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.

-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
iluvfreebeer is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:58 AM
  #149  
It is fantastic.
 
voltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 7,977

Bikes: 05 Specialized Allez Elite; 06 Fuji Team Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by So Cal commuter
Of course he tested high for testosterone...My wife would have high testosterone levels compared to the French.
Your wife has a moustache?
voltman is offline  
Old 07-28-06, 11:59 AM
  #150  
It is fantastic.
 
voltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 7,977

Bikes: 05 Specialized Allez Elite; 06 Fuji Team Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by iluvfreebeer
Good point, as they have no balls.
Lance is French?
voltman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.