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Old 07-28-06, 02:43 PM   #176
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Floyd Landis said "the high testosterone levels that caused him to fail a drug test at the Tour de France are the result of his natural metabolism -- not doping of any kind -- and he will undergo tests to prove it.
to accredit that the levels that I've had during the Tour and all my career are natural and produced by my own organism" .
ESPN- front page for reference.


Shouldnt this have shown up earlier in his previous tests in any race?
Then all this hoopla would be moot and everyone can go back to wishing they guy well
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Old 07-28-06, 02:49 PM   #177
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i can see it now, were gonna have the entire peleton completly **** housed...their bottles filled with screwdiver's and gin 'n' tonics...you'll have beer tears half way up the alpe de huez, and riders telling each other how much they love one another on the decents...it'll be just like my weekends!

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Old 07-28-06, 02:59 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by robot
i can see it now, were gonna have the entire peleton completly **** housed...their bottles filled with screwdiver's and gin 'n' tonics...you'll have beer tears half way up the alpe de huez, and riders telling each other how much they love one another on the decents...it'll be just like my weekends!
You need serious help
Just kidding.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:03 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by robot
i can see it now, were gonna have the entire peleton completly **** housed...their bottles filled with screwdiver's and gin 'n' tonics...you'll have beer tears half way up the alpe de huez, and riders telling each other how much they love one another on the decents...it'll be just like my weekends!
hmmm. umbrella drinks for the sprinters? single malt or whiskey for the climbers?
virgin drinks or bud for the white jersey?

then we'll have guys doing o'douls - they want to race "clean"
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Old 07-28-06, 03:03 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by spiderbike
If you test for drugs for 4 wks and only show up positive on one occasions, I think the proof will show that it was french sabatoge...those euro's need to cut this out\\

As far I'm concerned Landis has shown to me that he is the REAL TOUR DE FRANCE CHAMPION

This French conspiracy idiocy makes me emabarrassed that the people spouting it are americans.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:04 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by patentcad
As it well should.

This testosterone test is pointless for a number of reasons:

• Intended to detect anabolic steroids, it's focusing on a drug not widely used by competitive cyclists to cheat. What's the point?

• I've read one expert after another from all kinds of credentials essentially say there is too much potential for high readings from completely natural causes.

Which does beg the question: WHAT are they doing over there? Shouldn't they have RELEVANT doping controls? Not ones riddled with flaws/open to question/ testing for substances that aren't a threat to the GC?

Phil Ligget is in the media talking about this as a witch hunt too. Man, this is going to get ugly. But for pro cycling, the UCI, the Tour organizers et al most of all. It's their friggin bed. Idiots. Let them lie in it.

I'll enjoy watching them twist in Le Wind.
jesus you people won't let a cheater be a cheater will you? HOW DO YOU KNOW it's not a drug used widely by competitive cyclists? Are you a doper in the pro-tour? Do you have any first hand information that cyclists don't use testosterone? Floyd has tested positive for it! But that's not proof enough for you. The UCI full of medical doctors seems to think it's an important test and I think they have a reason for that. The problem with "experts in the field" is that if people are smart enough and they have credentials, they can apply doubt to any test. Look at Tyler and his lawyers and his experts. On and on blah blah blah "chimera" bs. He's a ****ing doper. Stop being so naive. I don't know how many years this test has been in affect but look at the last 5 years of the tour, the giro, and vualta. Lets say there are a combined 600 riders in these events in one year, then lets multiply that over 5 years. This is the first positive test of testerone I've heard of in that span, in those events. So this leads me to believe that the test is a quality test and does not have "potential for high readings from completely natural causes." Oh and what a coincedence that Floyd tested positive, the only one in the last 10,000 tests that have been performed. He tested positive after the most amazing tour come back i've seen in years. But hey, the test is faulty. he couldn't have possibly doped. The test is flawed! He's a stand-up guy!
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Old 07-28-06, 03:04 PM   #182
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Someone said they test daily...True?
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Old 07-28-06, 03:11 PM   #183
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Do they take samples from riders before and after races or just after? Seems like taking 2 sets of samples would be useful in indicating whether the stress associated with the exertion of the stage caused imbalances.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:13 PM   #184
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Give it a rest with all this French conspiracy crap. I know this is an “internet” forum, but let’s all have some common sense. I personally hope that Floyd can prove that his T/E ratio is normally elevated. But the fact remains that Floyd failed a test. His testosterone ration (T/E) is higher than allowed by the binding authority for international cycling. All riders are bound by the same rules and he failed. He will have a chance to defend himself at the court of arbitration – just like any other cyclist who has ever failed a test.

How exactly is this a conspiracy?
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Old 07-28-06, 03:16 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianallan
jesus you people won't let a cheater be a cheater will you? HOW DO YOU KNOW it's not a drug used widely by competitive cyclists? Are you a doper in the pro-tour? Do you have any first hand information that cyclists don't use testosterone? Floyd has tested positive for it! But that's not proof enough for you. The UCI full of medical doctors seems to think it's an important test and I think they have a reason for that. The problem with "experts in the field" is that if people are smart enough and they have credentials, they can apply doubt to any test. Look at Tyler and his lawyers and his experts. On and on blah blah blah "chimera" bs. He's a ****ing doper. Stop being so naive. I don't know how many years this test has been in affect but look at the last 5 years of the tour, the giro, and vualta. Lets say there are a combined 600 riders in these events in one year, then lets multiply that over 5 years. This is the first positive test of testerone I've heard of in that span, in those events. So this leads me to believe that the test is a quality test and does not have "potential for high readings from completely natural causes." Oh and what a coincedence that Floyd tested positive, the only one in the last 10,000 tests that have been performed. He tested positive after the most amazing tour come back i've seen in years. But hey, the test is faulty. he couldn't have possibly doped. The test is flawed! He's a stand-up guy!
He doesn't have a high level of testosterone, he has a high ratio compared to another hormone. Its not that he has alot of testosterone in the body but has very little of the other one (forget the name of the hormone) the ratio test is used to compare levels of testosterone and the ratio is used as a tool to verify that high levels of testosterone are not natural. This in fact is not the case.

I could understand if he had the classics signs of EPO, or people were giving a valid explaination why someone would have this type of ratio (i.e. normal t very low e), but everyone is scratching thier head as to what benefits this would have on a cyclist.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:31 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by schnee
They're just repeating what Karl Rove told Fox News to tell them to say.
I hear you

I live in the US and most of the people I know and work with are the nicest people you would ever want to meet. However, when traveling to some of the “red” states I am amazed at the level of ignorance and lack of understanding of the world outside of the US. I wonder if people realize why there is a big park near the White House named after a French guy “Lafayette”???
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Old 07-28-06, 03:32 PM   #187
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You do not have a positive test until you have a positive B sample.
It is reported that Landis tested positive. That is not correct.
If the A is positive and the B is negative...you have a negative test.
How did this info become public before the B sample has been tested. This is highly unethical behavior by the Tour organization, lab, etc. The results should not be released until after B sample is tested.
Now let us assume that the B is negative...hypothetically, then Floyd is cleared. But he will now always have that cloud hanging over him. Not fair.

I'm not sure I trust the due process that Floyd is getting. What if a French rider had won the Tour this year, fist time in like 22 years, and the French rider tested positive for abnormal test. ratios, are we to believe that the results would have ever been revealed? Surely the French would have swept it all under a rug.

I'm sure Lance has been in touch with Floyd, and I'm sure Lance has put him in contact with all the right people to help. Lance knows the French witch hunts better than anyone. I'm sure Lance is as angry as anyone. Perhaps this is some kind of conspiracy to hit back at Lance, and America's domination of the Tour. Let's get rid of all the top riders(Lance, Basso, Ullrich, Landis, etc.) and maybe the French will be competitive again.

The Italians almost always win the Giro, the Spanish almost always win the Vuelta, and the French never win the Tour...or anything else. Is this the root of the situation?
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Old 07-28-06, 03:36 PM   #188
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seems like if they're going to use this test, and if people's levels vary so much, then all pro riders should have an out of competition test done to establish there normal testosterone ratios and then compare it to that.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:37 PM   #189
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And maybe the Iroquois?
Wrong sport, that would be lacrosse.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:38 PM   #190
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And if yesterday was today it would be tomorrow.. next week should think about that.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:40 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneradtec
You do not have a positive test until you have a positive B sample.
It is reported that Landis tested positive. That is not correct.
If the A is positive and the B is negative...you have a negative test.
How did this info become public before the B sample has been tested. This is highly unethical behavior by the Tour organization, lab, etc. The results should not be released until after B sample is tested.
Now let us assume that the B is negative...hypothetically, then Floyd is cleared. But he will now always have that cloud hanging over him. Not fair.

I'm not sure I trust the due process that Floyd is getting. What if a French rider had won the Tour this year, fist time in like 22 years, and the French rider tested positive for abnormal test. ratios, are we to believe that the results would have ever been revealed? Surely the French would have swept it all under a rug.

I'm sure Lance has been in touch with Floyd, and I'm sure Lance has put him in contact with all the right people to help. Lance knows the French witch hunts better than anyone. I'm sure Lance is as angry as anyone. Perhaps this is some kind of conspiracy to hit back at Lance, and America's domination of the Tour. Let's get rid of all the top riders(Lance, Basso, Ullrich, Landis, etc.) and maybe the French will be competitive again.

The Italians almost always win the Giro, the Spanish almost always win the Vuelta, and the French never win the Tour...or anything else. Is this the root of the situation?
This is just not true. The rider is informed of a failed test after the A sample. They can then:

- Choose to have the B sample test
- Choose to witness the test of the B sample
- Admit their guilt

The B test is practically a formality. This will all really play out in the court of arbitration where Floyd will have a chance to prove that his T/E ratio was from natural causes.

Have a read here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...ory?id=2531798


Give the whole French conspiracy thing a rest. Tons of cyclists have been suspended over the past 20 years from all nationalities. I am so tired of reading how the French are out to get the US cyclists. I personally hope Floyd did not dope. But I am not about to blindly go and blame a whole nation out of stupid bigotry.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:40 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_nose
I hear you

I live in the US and most of the people I know and work with are the nicest people you would ever want to meet. However, when traveling to some of the “red” states I am amazed at the level of ignorance and lack of understanding of the world outside of the US. I wonder if people realize why there is a big park near the White House named after a French guy “Lafayette”???
That is idiotic. Most Americans (Red State or not) have no friggin' clue there is a park near the White House period.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:47 PM   #193
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Couldn't Floyd's hip bone can exonerate him?

Wouldn't bone definitively show evidence of performance enhancing drug use? Things remain in bone longer than they remain in blood. If Floyd is clean he should get his hip replaced immediately and have the bone sent to independent labs for testing.
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Old 07-28-06, 03:54 PM   #194
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White House?
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Old 07-28-06, 04:11 PM   #195
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And if yesterday was today it would be tomorrow.. next week should think about that.
Wrong thread, this needs to be in the Chewbacca defense thread.
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Old 07-28-06, 04:17 PM   #196
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White House?
Casa Blanca...
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Old 07-28-06, 04:21 PM   #197
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Casa Blanca...
Frankly, my dear...
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Old 07-28-06, 04:34 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by blue_nose
...When Basso and Ulrich wre banned the day before the tour it must have been a conspiracy against the Germans and Italians. Please...
Don't you get it? It's against anyone who isn't French.
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Old 07-28-06, 04:41 PM   #199
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Don't you get it? It's against anyone who isn't French.
Please tell me you were being sarcastic
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Old 07-28-06, 05:29 PM   #200
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You are correct about the steroid action. Steroids need to be administered over a period of time and there is not only no benefit from a short term exposure, it actually challenges the liver and kidneys during application. That is certainly not something that he would logically do during a tour. The thing is that he has been tested a gazillion times by the time he gets into the tour and no one has come forward to say that his ratio is normally above 1:1.
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