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-   -   Why no team time trials again? (http://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/437283-why-no-team-time-trials-again.html)

RoboCheme 07-04-08 03:24 PM

Why no team time trials again?
 
I always thought that the team time trials were poetry in motion, but for the third year in a row they aren't in the TdF. What gives? There's no dominant team this year (I think) so that can't be it.

Has ASO ever explain why they've given up on something so beautiful?

jaxgtr 07-04-08 05:54 PM

Couldn't tell you, but the TTT is the best thing going for pro bike races. Love them.

2wheeled 07-04-08 06:04 PM

I don't think they like strong teams getting to much time which why they did that god awful time alotted formula a couple of years back. All they need to do is keep it short.

TOLOCOMan 07-04-08 08:41 PM

Because now that they are both retired, Armstrong doesn't need a 2 minute head start on Ulrich anymore, and we can have some real mano on mano racing.

* jack * 07-06-08 04:52 AM

prolly cause the French suck at TTT

Laggard 07-06-08 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by * jack * (Post 7007316)
prolly cause the French suck at TTT

Oh shut the hell up. :mad:

Gonzlobo 07-06-08 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by * jack * (Post 7007316)
prolly cause the French suck at TTT

Yep. The Posties/Discovery smoked the competion, so the frenchies stopped those stages.

gapowermike 07-06-08 09:07 AM

I don't see why that's relevant. I mean do we really expect a Frenchman to win because there's no TTT?

::ducks::

JohnRW 07-06-08 10:31 AM

I always enjoyed the TTT. That long line of riders, going as fast as they could, working smoothly as a team, snaking up the road. It was the ultimate in visual team work. Sure, they work as a team in the other stages, but you rarely see it. In the TTT , they are all contributing to the speed, not just a few guys and the rest doing domestic work. Yes, it helped that the team I liked learned to be very good at it. If the guys I liked always LOST time in the event, I wouldn't have been sad to see it go. However, it still was a great show for TV.

Laggard 07-06-08 03:41 PM

Never a big fan. The riders and teams hate them.

merlinextraligh 07-06-08 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan (Post 7001927)
Because now that they are both retired, Armstrong doesn't need a 2 minute head start on Ulrich anymore, and we can have some real mano on mano racing.


Ok this post is so stupid, it has to have been posted by RyanF under a psuedonym.

First it assumes that ASO designed the Tours to favor Armstrong. When in fact once Armstrong started winning, they tried to design routes to help his competition.
(and this isn't meant say they targeted Armstrong, they've always tried to make for competitive races when someone is dominating the TDF, be it Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault, or Armstrong.)

Second, The ASO changed the scoring of TTTs to limit an advantage that Discovery could get by winning the TTT.

Third, Armstrong never got a 2 minute advantage on Ullrich from the TTT. 2005 it was 30 seconds; 2004, 1:19; 2003, 43 seconds; 2002; Party animal Ullrich was absent, 2001; no TTT, IIRC, 2000, Once, not Postal, won the TTT, 1999, no Ullrich.

Subtract the TTT results, and Ulrich still never takes one of Armstrong's GC victories. So "Mano a Mano", Armstrong still beats Donut boy. Sorry Ryan.

Laggard 07-06-08 05:24 PM

I think there's this myth that the TDF always has the TTT. It doesn't.

So there.

JohnRW 07-06-08 07:21 PM

Quote:

The riders and teams hate them.
Why ? I never heard that, but I am admittedly, not a year round bike race watcher.

TOLOCOMan 07-06-08 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 7009864)
Ok this post is so stupid, it has to have been posted by RyanF under a psuedonym.

First it assumes that ASO designed the Tours to favor Armstrong. When in fact once Armstrong started winning, they tried to design routes to help his competition.
(and this isn't meant say they targeted Armstrong, they've always tried to make for competitive races when someone is dominating the TDF, be it Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault, or Armstrong.)

Second, The ASO changed the scoring of TTTs to limit an advantage that Discovery could get by winning the TTT.

Third, Armstrong never got a 2 minute advantage on Ullrich from the TTT. 2005 it was 30 seconds; 2004, 1:19; 2003, 43 seconds; 2002; Party animal Ullrich was absent, 2001; no TTT, IIRC, 2000, Once, not Postal, won the TTT, 1999, no Ullrich.

Subtract the TTT results, and Ulrich still never takes one of Armstrong's GC victories. So "Mano a Mano", Armstrong still beats Donut boy. Sorry Ryan.

Ok, so I just threw out 2 minutes as a round number. I didn't have the time to research that thoroughly. I'll take your numbers as gospel, but I distinctly remember the year he was riding with Bianchi that the gap was less than the TTT difference. Perhaps what I am remembering is the year Ulrich crashed in the last IT, thus causing a larger gap, but would have been leading going into the time trial if not for the TTT. Who knows if that would have changed how aggressively he had to take that corner.

How do you figure they designed it to help his competition. If they weren't setting it up for Lance, why did they did they bring in the TTT, after an absence, when they knew he would gain time there, only to remove it from the race as soon as he retired. The ITT where also some of the hilliest and longest during the Armstrong years. Hmmmm...wonder who that favours? And don't even get me started on the year Armstrong didn't finish the designated course but somehow still won. No, no favourtism there.

If you have the strongest team in the race, you already gain everyday, we don't need a day dedicated to that.

Anyways, it was kind of tongue in cheek, but if you want to keep walking about with blinders on.....

Pedaleur 07-07-08 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan (Post 7012027)
And don't even get me started on the year Armstrong didn't finish the designated course but somehow still won.

Rosie Ruiz?

merlinextraligh 07-07-08 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan (Post 7012027)
Ok, so I just threw out 2 minutes as a round number. I didn't have the time to research that thoroughly. I'll take your numbers as gospel, but I distinctly remember the year he was riding with Bianchi that the gap was less than the TTT difference.

Didn't need to research it. I was there. And you're wrong. Armstrong's team got 43 seconds on Bianchi in the 2003 TTT. Amstrong won the 2003 tour by 1'01". And it would likely have been a bigger gap if Armstrong hadn't of soft pedaled the last half of the final ITT,after Ulrich fell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan (Post 7012027)
How do you figure they designed it to help his competition. If they weren't setting it up for Lance, why did they did they bring in the TTT, after an absence, when they knew he would gain time there, only to remove it from the race as soon as he retired. The ITT where also some of the hilliest and longest during the Armstrong years. Hmmmm...wonder who that favours?

Most obvious example is they changed the scoring system of the TTT, to limit Discovery's potential advantage. Also, over the 7 year run, they decreased the number of mountain top finishes. And adding a pure uphill TT up L'Alpe de Huez argualby was an advantage for the pure clmbers (guys like Iban Mayo) moreso than Armstrong.



Quote:

Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan (Post 7012027)
And don't even get me started on the year Armstrong didn't finish the designated course but somehow still won. No, no favourtism there.

Now your really stretching, going through a field to avoid a crash,and he should be disqualified? The Referee clearly was right that he got no advantage. And if they would have chosen to penalize him, the typical manner of handling such thngs is a time penalty, which would have been 10 seconds or so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOLOCOMan (Post 7012027)
Anyways, it was kind of tongue in cheek, but if you want to keep walking about with blinders on.....

Problem was that it was so far from reality it can't possibly be funny.

Armstrong won most of the 7 by dominant margins, as much as 6 minutes and change. Only 2003 was even close. It's simply absurd to suggest Ulrich would have beaten him but for the TTT.

botto 07-07-08 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 7012886)
<snip>

why are you wasting your time casting pearls to swine?

merlinextraligh 07-07-08 08:29 AM

good point.

rollin 07-07-08 08:35 AM

July is a great time to stay away from bf.

botto 07-07-08 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollin (Post 7013439)
July is a great time to stay away from bf.

in 2 days time i'll be doing just that. :D

gpsblake 07-09-08 10:40 PM

They had a TTT during the Tour of Georgia and I thought it was great.. especially since they used a car racing track (road course) so the fans could view them doing laps and such.

I know they can't do this because sponsorship means everything but wouldn't it be great to have a TTT based on country???? or teams based on country??


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