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Old 07-21-08, 11:00 AM   #51
marin1
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I think best in a single place and time would be Bob Roll bringing Andy Hampsten his cold weather gear at the Gavia Pass in the '88 Giro. If only for the awesome narrative. Bob Roll can make any story fun if you enjoy his sense of humor, but he really does spin a fun yarn about an epically brutal stage.
Why is Hampsten the hero of a stage he didin't win?

Sure he took the overall lead on that stage, but he wasn't the best on that day
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Old 07-21-08, 03:44 PM   #52
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Why is Hampsten the hero of a stage he didin't win?

Sure he took the overall lead on that stage, but he wasn't the best on that day
Are you familiar with that stage? It was less about who won and more about who finished...which is why Bobke was nominated as greatest domestique for 1 day. Having done his work for the day, Roll was sent BACK up to the leading group of GC guys, to give freaking snow gear to his teammate, Hampsten. Bobke had a several case of hypothermia at the end with a HR of something absurdly low like 20bpm.

As for Hampsten being the hero...he put in the ride of the day to take pink, one of the first if not the first time for an american and ultimately won the race on that stage. We saw the same thing in yesterdays stage. The breakaway and winning of the stage was second to the battle on the mountain with the GC guys.
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Old 07-21-08, 04:51 PM   #53
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Are you familiar with that stage? It was less about who won and more about who finished...which is why Bobke was nominated as greatest domestique for 1 day. Having done his work for the day, Roll was sent BACK up to the leading group of GC guys, to give freaking snow gear to his teammate, Hampsten. Bobke had a several case of hypothermia at the end with a HR of something absurdly low like 20bpm.

As for Hampsten being the hero...he put in the ride of the day to take pink, one of the first if not the first time for an american and ultimately won the race on that stage. We saw the same thing in yesterdays stage. The breakaway and winning of the stage was second to the battle on the mountain with the GC guys.
Are you familiar with the stage, Hampsten going away was the race for the stage and the GC, Brekink(sp?) just caught him thats all. Great ride by Hampsten don't get me wrong, but Eric doesn't even get mentioned. Brekinks domestique should be the greatest for one day if his rider won, that's all I'm saying
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Old 07-21-08, 06:01 PM   #54
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Do you still qualify as a domestique when you have a palmares that good?
Yes, because 99% of the time he worked for Merckx. He was never a team leader when Merckx was riding. Circumstances dictated he got support only occassionally, when the circumstances suited eg Liege in 76. His two Het Volks (79-80?), Liege in 78 and the 1978 Tour 4th on GC and extended run in the yellow jersey were all after Merckx retired.
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Old 07-21-08, 07:23 PM   #55
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Seriously though, Rolf Aldag and Udo Bolts.
Udo Bolts, case closed.
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Old 07-21-08, 08:32 PM   #56
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One of several. The wiki article you site is very good. One sad thnig is that to this day many believe that this was the only plot and late in the war. The earliest I know of was in '38. Fizzled because it was a plot to depose, not kill and it depended on things not going well for Germany. Things went better than even a madman could hope. BTW that plot had a plot within a plot. Hitler was to be captured by a comando group med by Major Heinz. Unknown to almost everyone was that Heinz and Hans Oster had decided that Hitler would tragically be caught in a crossfire.

See Hans Oster and Canaris. Number 1 and 2 men in the Abwer, German military intelegence and working against Hitler from early on.

Also Of interest. Bonhoeffer and Sack. A year ago I could have rattled off a half dozen more names.
Check it out:
http://valkyriemovie.org/

No idea if it will be any good, just thought it was worth pointing out.
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Old 07-21-08, 09:06 PM   #57
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Yes, because 99% of the time he worked for Merckx. He was never a team leader when Merckx was riding. Circumstances dictated he got support only occassionally, when the circumstances suited eg Liege in 76. His two Het Volks (79-80?), Liege in 78 and the 1978 Tour 4th on GC and extended run in the yellow jersey were all after Merckx retired.
Merckx did work for Bruyere as a reward for his faithful sacrifice to him. One of the great photos of all time was taken at the '74 Het Volk which Bruyere won. The photo shows Eddy setting the pace for about 7 riders with Bruyere sitting in at the 4 or 5 spot. Of course, with Eddy on the front, everyone is on the rivet, and the dust is flying and the fans are leaning into it. I can't help but shout when I see the photo.

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Old 07-21-08, 10:06 PM   #58
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Didn't happen very often though. Bruyere had a stint in yellow in the 74 Tour IIRC, including the stage in England. Not to say it didn't happen, but Merckx didn't let teamates of the lease very often. Julien Stevens in the Tour in 69 or 70 is one instance I can recall, not too many others.
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Old 07-21-08, 10:14 PM   #59
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neil stephens ... and he thought the shots were vitamins .

ed rader
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Old 07-21-08, 10:16 PM   #60
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neil stephens ... and he thought the shots were vitamins .

ed rader
LOL
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Old 07-22-08, 06:27 AM   #61
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Didn't happen very often though. Bruyere had a stint in yellow in the 74 Tour IIRC, including the stage in England. Not to say it didn't happen, but Merckx didn't let teamates of the lease very often. Julien Stevens in the Tour in 69 or 70 is one instance I can recall, not too many others.
Of course it didn't happen very often, after all, he was Merckx, and Bruyere was a domestique who started riding with Merckx straight out of the amateurs after Merckx had already established himself as the greatest. His job was to work for his leader. But every great leader throws his dog a bone now and then. The '74 Het Volk was probably the most significant. Plus, like you say, Bruyere still had an opportunity to show his class when Merckx retired.
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Old 07-22-08, 02:31 PM   #62
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Didn't happen very often though. Bruyere had a stint in yellow in the 74 Tour IIRC, including the stage in England. Not to say it didn't happen, but Merckx didn't let teamates of the lease very often. Julien Stevens in the Tour in 69 or 70 is one instance I can recall, not too many others.
If I recall correctly Eddy had a teammate win a stage in every TDF he won, and often 2 teammates winning stages. How many teammates won a stage with Lance? With Hinault?

(The Hinault answer is 1 and it ws Lemond on a TT).
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Old 07-22-08, 03:45 PM   #63
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If I recall correctly Eddy had a teammate win a stage in every TDF he won, and often 2 teammates winning stages. How many teammates won a stage with Lance? With Hinault?

(The Hinault answer is 1 and it ws Lemond on a TT).
At least eight when LA's team won the TTT.
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Old 07-22-08, 04:06 PM   #64
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At least eight when LA's team won the TTT.
Ok you got me! But since you are picking at my phrasing you should be more careful with yours! Or perhaps that is Lance's secret, a bigger team!
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Old 07-22-08, 04:14 PM   #65
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Didn't happen very often though. Bruyere had a stint in yellow in the 74 Tour IIRC, including the stage in England. Not to say it didn't happen, but Merckx didn't let teamates of the lease very often. Julien Stevens in the Tour in 69 or 70 is one instance I can recall, not too many others.
You nailed them both. It was 69 for Stevens.

Interestingly in both cases they took the Yellow from a pretty good rider.....

Merckx himself.

In both cases it was early in the Tour and from the stage results looks like a case of having a rider covering a break. As best I can fugure out in Stevens case he needed the stage win time bonus to catch Eddy. In Bruyere's case the cover kept the Yellow in the team when otherwise it would have gone elsewhere.

Oh and I looked it up. In his 5 Tour wins there was at elast one stage win by a teammate in each and every one, including one by Bruyere in '72. Eddys teammates had a total of 9 indivdual stage wins. I'll bet that is far and away the most of any Trade team. Since Coppi and Bartoli did not race the TDF that may times it is a reasonable chance that it holds for under national teams too. Though Anquetil might have that many wins by teammates in TDFs he won. (Of course Poulidor isn't much help there).
A classic strategy that seems to have been lost in todays world of personal egos.
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Old 07-22-08, 04:33 PM   #66
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At least eight when LA's team won the TTT.
Do you mean 3? Because that's the real number
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Old 07-22-08, 07:22 PM   #67
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"My tip to domestiques today is to give 110% no matter what."
Sean Yates

That says it all.
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Old 07-22-08, 09:18 PM   #68
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neil stephens ... and he thought the shots were vitamins .

ed rader
+2

pisser...
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Old 07-23-08, 02:14 AM   #69
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Nick Gates

Can't think of any other reason why he would be on the team otherwise...
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Old 07-23-08, 05:24 AM   #70
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I think Indurain did a Hell of Job for Delgado back in the day.

My thoughts too. In the late 80s he almost carried him over the mountains, when it was obvious to all but the team who the better rider was. I remember, after one particularly superhuman day by Indurain in the mountains, I think in 1990, Delgado had been dropped off time and time again, and each time Indurain went back to wet-nurse him back to the group, and Phil Liggett said "You know something Paul, one day I think this lad might win the Tour". With hindsight, it sounds pretty funny.
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Old 07-23-08, 05:42 AM   #71
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If I recall correctly Eddy had a teammate win a stage in every TDF he won, and often 2 teammates winning stages. How many teammates won a stage with Lance? With Hinault?

(The Hinault answer is 1 and it ws Lemond on a TT).
Hinault had a few teammates win Giro and Vuelta stages or take jerseys when he was racing, but I can't remember Tour stages, at least before 85-86. I can remember Fignon in the 82 Giro (pink) and 83 Vuelta (stage). The big one was Bernadeau over the Stelvio in 1980.
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Old 07-25-08, 07:27 AM   #72
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Wim Vansevenant. He must be truly awesome if the team keep him even though he is heading for his (RECORD!) 3rd consecutive Lanterne Rouge.
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