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Old 07-22-08, 06:33 AM   #1
bac
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Egoi Martínez cries FOUL!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...l08/jul21news2
(3rd story down)

"Gerrans said that he would settle for reaching the finish line with me and being second. So when he was not able to follow on the ascent to the Prato Nevoso, we waited for him."

- Egoi Martínez


What do you think? Did Egoi get the shaft from Gerrans? He is certainly stating so.

... Brad
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Old 07-22-08, 07:02 AM   #2
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I wondered why they didn't dump him.
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Old 07-22-08, 07:11 AM   #3
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That is racing. He bluffed they believed him.
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Old 07-22-08, 07:32 AM   #4
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That is racing. He bluffed they believed him.
agree. never wait. drop them all. every last on of them. later.
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Old 07-22-08, 08:42 AM   #5
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Yeah I agree, why wait for anyone. Nothing like the finish line to turn an honest man into a back stabber. Perhaps Martinez learned a lesson from this!
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Old 07-22-08, 08:46 AM   #6
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If Gerrans said it, naughty, naughty. Agreements are made all the time in the groups. If this is true, Gerrans won't be making many more.
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Old 07-22-08, 10:14 AM   #7
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If (and I mean if) Gerrans said that and Egoi Martínez believed him, Martinez is extremely naive or a dickhead. If you are capable of dropping someone you drop them. Why take a risk of towing him to the finish where he can outsprint you?

Funny story. I once rode a stage race which former world champ Danny Clark was competing in. He went up to the race leader during the last stage and congratulated him on his imminent victory. 10 minutes later Clark was up the road taking the seconds needed for the overall. The moral is there are no morals. The other moral is don't get sucked in, especially by cunning old pros. Geez DC was a ruthless bastid. No wonder he's not the most popular bloke going around.
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Old 07-22-08, 10:20 AM   #8
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If Gerrans said it, naughty, naughty. Agreements are made all the time in the groups. If this is true, Gerrans won't be making many more.
I agree. A Tour stage victory is career-defining for a rider like Gerrans, so he may decide it was worth it, but he won't be welcome in many breakaways for the rest of his career.
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Old 07-22-08, 11:12 AM   #9
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If (and I mean if) Gerrans said that and Egoi Martínez believed him, Martinez is extremely naive or a dickhead. If you are capable of dropping someone you drop them. Why take a risk of towing him to the finish where he can outsprint you?
As payment for work he did earlier in the day? Why would trusting someone make you a dickhead? Either way gerrans is going to be persona non grata in breaks for a while. The best answer to the prisoners dilemma is trusting reciprocity and gerrans just ****ed himself.
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Old 07-22-08, 11:30 AM   #10
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Funny how ppl in this thread think riders have no morals and there are no un-written rules. But think there should be no attacking on the Champs and the winner is determined by the ITT.
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Old 07-22-08, 03:34 PM   #11
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Here is what Martinez siad:

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The Euskaltel rider was given the most aggressive award for the stage, but after descending from the podium with tears in his eyes claimed that Gerrans had said he would not contest the victory if they arrived in Prato Nevoso together. "Fifty kilometres before the finish Gerrans began to say that he was not in good form, that he lacked strength, and that he would not be able to fight for the stage victory," Martínez told Spanish newspaper Marca.

"Gerrans said that he would settle for reaching the finish line with me and being second. So when he was not able to follow on the ascent to the Prato Nevoso, we waited for him."
That means two other witnesses. It does not seem to me that they waited for him at any point on the climb.

Deals are usually cut when things are down to 2 riders (or at the least 2 teams) that situation never existed regarding Gerrans.
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Old 07-22-08, 05:41 PM   #12
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Why would he wait, that doesn't make any sense. If you can drop them, you do it. He blew it & knows it. Sounds like a sore loser to me.

I wonder if we'll hear from Pate or Arrieta.
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Old 07-22-08, 06:15 PM   #13
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As payment for work he did earlier in the day? Why would trusting someone make you a dickhead? Either way gerrans is going to be persona non grata in breaks for a while. The best answer to the prisoners dilemma is trusting reciprocity and gerrans just ****ed himself.
Gerrans rides for a French team in Frances biggest race. He now has a stage win, probably a $$ bonus, and guaranteed contract if/when CA get a new sponsor. As I stated, if what Martinez said about Gerrans saying he wouldn't contest the finish is true then Martinez is an idiot for believing it. He must be stupid or naive in the extreme not to weigh all the above up in about half a second. When the so-called code of the peloton comes up against self-interest, bet on self-interest.

Gerrans races mostly in France, and is a respected rider there. He's a top domestic with some big wins behind him. Martinez races mostly in Spain. Opportunites for payback will be few. At worst a few other riders will be concious that Gerrans can't be trusted making deals. Weighed up against a Tour stage win and the benefits that gives him, Gerrans could care less. Probably the only people who will give a stuff in the long term that Gerrans pulled a double cross are Martinez and his team.
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Old 07-22-08, 06:27 PM   #14
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One other thing does not smell right. The deal usually is a deal, both men have something to gain. The classic example is a break with a GC contender and a non-contender. Usually these are mountian stages, but they don't have to be. The deal? Both work like a two man time trial up to the very end, they just make sure the non-contender gets the stage win. Non-contender gets a stage win, contender gets maximum time.

Once in a while a pair will agree to work til near the end than drag race. I only recall this once. This one depends on just the right gap, reasonable trust and reasonably balanced riders. E.g. if we both work til 1000 meters we will stay away, if not we won't. But that alone is not enough as if one is clearly the better for the drag sprint it is still a bad deal for him.

So what would Martinez gain in any deal? I can't see anything. And how does Martinez make a deal that includes Pate?
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Old 07-22-08, 06:31 PM   #15
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What does waiting for him help anyway? I could see if it were a flat stage but on a climb you might as well just leave him. What about Pate? Where was he in the equation?

Just doesn't make sense to me on a climb.
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Old 07-22-08, 07:34 PM   #16
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the benefit martinez gains in the deal is he doesnt have to ride as hard since he doesnt have to worry about racing gerrans anymore
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Old 07-22-08, 07:53 PM   #17
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Gerrans rides for a French team in Frances biggest race. He now has a stage win, probably a $$ bonus, and guaranteed contract if/when CA get a new sponsor. As I stated, if what Martinez said about Gerrans saying he wouldn't contest the finish is true then Martinez is an idiot for believing it. He must be stupid or naive in the extreme not to weigh all the above up in about half a second. When the so-called code of the peloton comes up against self-interest, bet on self-interest.

Gerrans races mostly in France, and is a respected rider there. He's a top domestic with some big wins behind him. Martinez races mostly in Spain. Opportunites for payback will be few. At worst a few other riders will be concious that Gerrans can't be trusted making deals. Weighed up against a Tour stage win and the benefits that gives him, Gerrans could care less. Probably the only people who will give a stuff in the long term that Gerrans pulled a double cross are Martinez and his team.
...and maybe every Spanish rider.
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Old 07-22-08, 07:57 PM   #18
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the benefit martinez gains in the deal is he doesnt have to ride as hard since he doesnt have to worry about racing gerrans anymore
Plus Gerrans doesn't have to work as hard to support the break because the other riders don't think he is going to contest the finish.
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Old 07-22-08, 08:53 PM   #19
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It does not seem to me that they waited for him at any point on the climb.
What race were you watching? They were obviously waiting for him on the last climb, when he was off the back.

OTOH, I didn't think that made sense at the time. Gerrens was sitting on the whole climb. Why not just leave him?
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Old 07-22-08, 09:13 PM   #20
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the benefit martinez gains in the deal is he doesnt have to ride as hard since he doesnt have to worry about racing gerrans anymore
That doesn't make any sense. There were two other riders with them when the supposed deal went down. he still has to race them
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Old 07-22-08, 09:19 PM   #21
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...and maybe every Spanish rider.
I'm sure Gerrans is really crapping his pants at the (theoretical) prospect.
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Old 07-22-08, 11:26 PM   #22
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What race were you watching? They were obviously waiting for him on the last climb, when he was off the back.

OTOH, I didn't think that made sense at the time. Gerrens was sitting on the whole climb. Why not just leave him?
Whatl if the deal was Gerrens would share the work on the flats in exchange for not leaving him?

All I know it was clear they waited for him and Gerrens sat in the whole climb. That sure didn't make any sense while it was happening.
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