Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    SSP
    SSP is offline
    Software for Cyclists SSP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Redding, California
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
    Posts
    4,618
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Cadel's Wimphy Wheel?

    It looks like Cadel was running the equivalent of a Zipp 404 on his front wheel in today's TT, while other riders were on more aerodynamic rims.

    Any idea why he would choose such a low profile front wheel for the long TT? I would have expected him to be running something more like a Zipp 808 on the front. Given his performance, perhaps he should have been...

    FWIW, Sastre's front wheel looked more like an 808, in terms of rim depth.
    CycliStats.com - Software for Cyclists
    WeightWare.com - Weight Management Software

  2. #2
    CPM M4 BananaTugger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The West Side (Of Rochester, NY).
    My Bikes
    Light.
    Posts
    4,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    It looks like Cadel was running the equivalent of a Zipp 404 on his front wheel in today's TT, while other riders were on more aerodynamic rims.

    Any idea why he would choose such a low profile front wheel for the long TT? I would have expected him to be running something more like a Zipp 808 on the front. Given his performance, perhaps he should have been...

    FWIW, Sastre's front wheel looked more like an 808, in terms of rim depth.
    Sastre was on a Zipp 1080 with the Sub-9 Disk.

    Cadel was on a Campagnolo Bora with some disk.

    The Zipp 1080 is 108mm deep, the Bora is only 50mm.

    Campagnolo doesn't make any wheels deeper than 50mm.
    Last edited by BananaTugger; 07-26-08 at 05:00 PM.
    Ten tenths.

  3. #3
    raodmaster shaman
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    G-ville
    Posts
    1,431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sucks for Evans to be stuck with sub-par equipment.

  4. #4
    SSP
    SSP is offline
    Software for Cyclists SSP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Redding, California
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
    Posts
    4,618
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Interesting...I noticed that VandeVelde was also running a deeply aero front wheel (808 or 1080).

    Makes you wonder about Cadel's choice of equipment. It's my understanding that front wheel aerodynamics are hugely important, and given how poorly he did perhaps his front wheel was a contributing factor.



    Also, did anyone else notice a strange "hump" on VandeVelde's back? Any idea what that was?


    And Menchov's number wasn't glued on? I couldn't tell if it was pinned, but it was definitely billowing out. WTF??
    Last edited by SSP; 07-26-08 at 05:13 PM.
    CycliStats.com - Software for Cyclists
    WeightWare.com - Weight Management Software

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    35
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    Interesting...I noticed that VandeVelde was also running a deeply aero front wheel (808 or 1080).

    Makes you wonder about Cadel's choice of equipment. It's my understanding that front wheel aerodynamics are hugely important, and given how poorly he did perhaps his front wheel was a contributing factor.



    Also, did anyone else notice a strange "hump" on VandeVelde's back? Any idea what that was?
    Yeah, i saw that. I think it is something inserted in the skin suit to smooth air flow over his back.

    Either that or the dude is a Stegasaurus.

  6. #6
    CPM M4 BananaTugger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The West Side (Of Rochester, NY).
    My Bikes
    Light.
    Posts
    4,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    Interesting...I noticed that VandeVelde was also running a deeply aero front wheel (808 or 1080).

    Makes you wonder about Cadel's choice of equipment. It's my understanding that front wheel aerodynamics are hugely important, and given how poorly he did perhaps his front wheel was a contributing factor.



    Also, did anyone else notice a strange "hump" on VandeVelde's back? Any idea what that was?
    Colombia is sponsored by Shimano, but they have been sneaking team branded Lightweight Obermayers and Zipp 808's onto the bikes since 2007 for critical stages.

    As for aerodynamics: The 1080 that Sastre was using is the most aero non-disk in production right now.

    The Bora that Evans was riding, isn't.
    Ten tenths.

  7. #7
    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Synapse , Trek CrossRip
    Posts
    4,019
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    An aero wheel would not have made up 1:34. He sucked today and blew his shot.
    Brian | 2015 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 3 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.

  8. #8
    TMB
    TMB is offline
    Permanent Refugee ....... TMB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Okanagan Valley, BC.
    My Bikes
    Steel
    Posts
    1,255
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ_Kurt View Post
    Yeah, i saw that. I think it is something inserted in the skin suit to smooth air flow over his back.

    Either that or the dude is a Stegasaurus.

    He had a CamelBack on.

    You could see him using the hose to drink

  9. #9
    Senior Member robema's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    wales
    My Bikes
    racer,mountain
    Posts
    142
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sastre was on a Zipp 1080 with the Sub-9 Disk.

    Cadel was on a Campagnolo Bora with some disk.

    The Zipp 1080 is 108mm deep, the Bora is only 50mm.

    Campagnolo doesn't make any wheels deeper than 50mm
    Yeah, i saw that. I think it is something inserted in the skin suit to smooth air flow over his back.

    Either that or the dude is a Stegasaurus.
    the further you get from your bike, the dumber you'll look in lycra
    Thanks to all of those who joined us for a fantastic Tour so far. Special thanks to those who contributed to our cause.
    and that is why i love this forum

  10. #10
    SSP
    SSP is offline
    Software for Cyclists SSP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Redding, California
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
    Posts
    4,618
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jaxgtr View Post
    An aero wheel would not have made up 1:34. He sucked today and blew his shot.
    Hmmmm....Evans finished down by only 58 seconds.

    You've got to wonder if something like a 1080 rim might have allowed him to save 1 second per kilometer - that would have been enough for yellow. Remember, poor Evans had to ride with sub-par gear in TWO TT's.
    CycliStats.com - Software for Cyclists
    WeightWare.com - Weight Management Software

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    5,317
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    Hmmmm....Evans finished down by only 58 seconds.

    You've got to wonder if something like a 1080 rim might have allowed him to save 1 second per kilometer - that would have been enough for yellow. Remember, poor Evans had to ride with sub-par gear in TWO TT's.
    http://www.zipp.com/Portals/0/Techno...dgeFlyer_2.pdf

    unlikely remember that this test is probably done with conditions almost ideal for the 1080/sub9 combo.

  12. #12
    Senior Member z415's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Gainesville/Tampa, FL
    My Bikes
    Trek 1000, two mtbs and working on a fixie for commuting.
    Posts
    2,347
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by waytoomanybikes View Post
    He had a CamelBack on.

    You could see him using the hose to drink
    I saw a Ventura/Andreu/one of the other guys do a thing on Garmin-Chipotle's team gear and they have a pocket in the back of their jerseys/skinsuits for a ice pack to keep them cool. Apparently they pop the pack in and then toss the whole outfit in giant coolers filled with ice that they put on right before they ride.

    Or it could be a Camelbak.
    Falling is learning...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]...learn to not fall in a box.
    Any good American will watch THIS -and- WHERE WAS MY BIKE MADE?

  13. #13
    Fixed Commuter Bike4More's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno
    My Bikes
    Roads Moutains Fixed Vintage
    Posts
    182
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Early speculation was that there was a cross/tailwind at the end. The shallower wheel could have been precautionary for the crosswind.

    Maybe his wheel choice was lighter to gain time on the climbs?

    Either way he couldnt pull it off. His team sucks, always has. Cant win a TDF without a stellar team.
    Ride your bike. www.bike4more.com
    2007 Kestrel Evoke Full Campy Record
    2008 Surly CrossCheck 1x9
    2008 IRO Mark V 46x17 Fixed Commuter
    1973 Raleigh Sports 3 speed
    1953 Schwinn Paramount Track Bike 23x8

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    My Bikes
    Dawes Kalahari, Puch Prima Super Sport, Graham Weigh 853
    Posts
    1,990
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    First time I've ever heard Boras called sub-par....

    Perhaps he ought to have run Gihblis front and rear. Hohoho.

  15. #15
    Stop It! Matt888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    My Bikes
    Ferrari, Euro sport, Wheeler.
    Posts
    202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow! You people are a marketers dream.
    I would hardly refer to a Ghibli / Bora set up as a slow wheel combo.
    Maybe you should look into these things a bit more instead of just drinking in everything the Zipp marketers feed you????

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    2,976
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt888 View Post
    Wow! You people are a marketers dream.
    I would hardly refer to a Ghibli / Bora set up as a slow wheel combo.
    Maybe you should look into these things a bit more instead of just drinking in everything the Zipp marketers feed you????
    O.K. So what would the time differential be for the two wheel sets?

  17. #17
    CPM M4 BananaTugger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The West Side (Of Rochester, NY).
    My Bikes
    Light.
    Posts
    4,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt888 View Post
    Wow! You people are a marketers dream.
    I would hardly refer to a Ghibli / Bora set up as a slow wheel combo.
    Maybe you should look into these things a bit more instead of just drinking in everything the Zipp marketers feed you????
    It's not martketing, it's fact:


    A pair of Zipp 808's are faster than a pair of Campagnolo Boras. A pair of 1080's would only be faster.

    Zipp's Sub-9 disc is the most aerodynamic wheel in the world. Campagnolo's disc isn't.
    Ten tenths.

  18. #18
    Sprinters are Sexy
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    My Bikes
    Salsa Campeon.
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sastre's set up was absolutely dialed. Not just the rim depth (yes, I was also surprised at Cadel's relatively shallow front rim).

    CSC mechanics went so far as to remove the seals on the bearings (ceramic, of course) AND replace the grease with oil for even less drag. I'll let others debate on whether or not such tactics have little more than a placebo effect. Regardless, it just goes to show Sastre and CSC left very little, if anything, to chance.

  19. #19
    Stop It! Matt888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    My Bikes
    Ferrari, Euro sport, Wheeler.
    Posts
    202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    6 watts eh. And of course this would vary betwwen diifferent riders and individiul wheel builds and tyre pressures and so many other variables it's ridiculous?? Nice graph, but completly usless in the real world.

  20. #20
    CPM M4 BananaTugger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The West Side (Of Rochester, NY).
    My Bikes
    Light.
    Posts
    4,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt888 View Post
    6 watts eh. And of course this would vary betwwen diifferent riders and individiul wheel builds and tyre pressures and so many other variables it's ridiculous?? Nice graph, but completly usless in the real world.
    Please to be telling me what affect the variables you mention would have on how much faster the Sub-9/1080 then the Campagnolo Disk/Bora?
    Ten tenths.

  21. #21
    raodmaster shaman
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    G-ville
    Posts
    1,431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt888 View Post
    6 watts eh. And of course this would vary betwwen diifferent riders and individiul wheel builds and tyre pressures and so many other variables it's ridiculous?? Nice graph, but completly usless in the real world.
    Well if you didn't read the post above yours, it's pretty safe to assume the rest of those "variables" would have broken in Sastre's favor too.

    From top to bottom CSC was on another level than lotto and it paid off.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt888 View Post
    6 watts eh. And of course this would vary betwwen diifferent riders and individiul wheel builds and tyre pressures and so many other variables it's ridiculous?? Nice graph, but completly usless in the real world.
    Rofl, how can you possibly argue that a bora/ghibli is faster than a 1080/sub9.

    If its completley useless in the real world, which wheels would you have run in that TT if money was no object? A pair of ksyriums? that table shows they are horrible in the wind tunnel, but that means nothing in the real world...

  23. #23
    Stop It! Matt888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    My Bikes
    Ferrari, Euro sport, Wheeler.
    Posts
    202
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Parsnip View Post
    Rofl, how can you possibly argue that a bora/ghibli is faster than a 1080/sub9.

    If its completley useless in the real world, which wheels would you have run in that TT if money was no object? A pair of ksyriums? that table shows they are horrible in the wind tunnel, but that means nothing in the real world...

    Firstly, I didn't argue one was faster than the other, you did as evidenced by the use of the graph, read my post again.
    Secondly, that graph is hardly that convincing. It compares an 05 Bora to a 07 808. Niether of those wheels are the ones used in the initial arguement. The graph also indicates that these are the differences in watts absorbed at 50kph. Not taking into account the power out put needed of the rider to achieve this speed. So I'm assuming (don't fry me for the assumtion), that these tests are done on a jig so the test is identical for each wheel, yes? So the ammount of variables you experience out on the road cannot be taken into account. The bora would be superior in a cross wind for example, as it's only 50mm, this does not reflect build quality, more the choice of the individual. I'm just saying that even going off what the graph says the diffence is too small to make a huge difference anyway, especially considering there was indeed a strong cross wind on the day of the TT in question. Both Zipp and Campy make a good wheel and using one or the other is not going to make the difference between winning and loosing a race. Thats where my marketers dream comment came from. Otherwise the whole peleton would be on the best product so no advantage was lost. If you want to know what I would choose if money was no object. Well I'd have both and use them as I saw fit. I certainly won't be blaiming my equipment when I don't get results though. I'll get back on the bike and train harder instead.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Equipment can and does make the difference between winning and losing - no argument about that - put cadel on a sub9/1080 and he will be faster over a flat TT than with a ghibli/bora - equipment making no difference? You are being funny, right??

    Its my understanding that a 1080 will always be more aero than a bora, no matter what the wind is doing, as long as you can control the 1080 without losing power.

    I really dont think there was a strong crosswind on the TT - sastre weighs next to nothing and he had no problem controlling the 1080.

    The whole peloton doesnt run the same wheels because of sponsorship. If Evans was allowed, he would be running a sub9 and a deeper front - the fact that the bora is the deepest wheel campy make means he had no choice - hes a bigger guy than sastre and could easilly have controlled a 1080 over that course.

  25. #25
    Je pose, donc je suis.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Back. Here.
    Posts
    2,898
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt888 View Post
    The graph also indicates that these are the differences in watts absorbed at 50kph. Not taking into account the power out put needed of the rider to achieve this speed.
    I don't follow your reasoning. 6w is 6w.

    Though 6w isn't going to make up a minute for Cadel.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •