Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-26-08, 05:24 PM   #1
donrhummy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
donrhummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cadel Whines and Implies Some Dope Use?

Found some quotes from Cadel and I'm very dissapointed in him. He's definitely implying that Sastre and others were doping. But if you look here, you'll see that Sastre's numbers were just about what they normally were, it was Cadel who was worse. And Sastre was about where he normally is in terms of placement on the TT too.

Quote:
In 2006 Sastre rode the long TT at: 47.20 Km/h
In 2007 Sastre rode the long TT at: 47.26 Km/h

This year? 47.87 Km/h. That IS faster and a great TT, but not outside the capabilities of Sastre when he's holding yellow and riding to win the TDF. (And last year's TT was 2.5 KM longer and just slightly hillier)

Evans?

In 2006 he rode the long TT at: 47.87 Km/h
In 2007 he rode the long TT at: 48.92 Km/h

This year? 48.23. He was probably tired, but that's actually not that far off his time from last year.
http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...uNyjwyfCrA-kJg
Quote:
"Sastre's ride in the time trial today for me was a real surprise," Evans said after finishing the 53-kilometre ride from Cerilly to Saint-Amand-Montrond in seventh place.
...
"There were some guys riding surprisingly fast," Evans said. "I got some time checks from the other riders and thought, 'What's going on here?"'
That's a very dangerous and misleading implication. Sastre was not riding on a different level from normally, he simply rode one of his best ever and Cadel did not. In fact, if Sastre had ridden at the exact speed he did last year, he'd have finished in 1:07:20 and STILL beaten Cadel Evans!!

And of course he gets in the whine about 3 on one:

Quote:
"On the climbs, CSC were so strong. It comes down to they have two or three times the budget we do," Evans said. "They can straight away buy much better quality riders. Strength in numbers ... it was no surprise."

Last edited by donrhummy; 07-26-08 at 05:27 PM.
donrhummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 06:01 PM   #2
Paniolo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: N Dallas, TX
Bikes:
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Though it is a little whiny to say it, the second point is true. If Cadel had any team support in the mountains he probably would have had the energy to ride a normal final TT and finish in yellow.
Paniolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 06:55 PM   #3
jaxgtr
Senior Member
 
jaxgtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Bikes: Trek ALR 6, Trek CrossRip, Trek X-Caliber 8
Posts: 4,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yea, Cadel's issue is his team was never there for him in the big mountain stages. Crashing twice could not have helped either. Of course if he would have attacked instead of wheel sucking up the mountains, he might have had the lead. CSC was a strong mountain team and blew Lotto out the door. Would have been nice too see what Astana would have done. CSC was the top team for sure.
__________________
Brian | 2015 Trek Emonda ALR 6 | 2015 Trek X-Caliber 8 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.
jaxgtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 07:20 PM   #4
Suzie Green
Cycler
 
Suzie Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yup. Cadel chose to mark Menchov in the mountains, figuring he was the #1 danger man. He also probably figured he could give Sastre a certain amount of rope, and it appeared that 2 minutes was that amount. Had he chased Sastre down, perhaps F. Schleck and Menchov would have attacked and then where would he be? I think he played it the best he could under the circumstances. You can't chase everything down without some help. He lost the Tour to a rider who took the right opportunity at the right time in the mountains and who then rode the TT of his life. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback, I give credit to both Evans and Sastre (and CSC) for coming up with a plan and executing it as best they could. Evans could gain a ton of credibility if he simply said "I lost to a better man and better strategy!"
Suzie Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 07:24 PM   #5
SpongeDad
Overacting because I can
 
SpongeDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Posts: 4,552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nice way to get popular in the peloton. If CSC tests clean, he's gonna look like a total weiner. Hell if Astana had been there it would have been twice as many riders giving him the rope a dope.

He took a calculated and what looked at the time smart risk to let Sastre go. He always had the option of ignoring the Schlecks and riding a harder, more consistent pace up Alpe d'Huez. Just didn't pan out.

Whining should be done over a beer with your closest friends, if at all - never in public.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
SpongeDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 07:25 PM   #6
Suzie Green
Cycler
 
Suzie Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
Whining should be done over a beer with your closest friends, if at all - never in public.
Suzie Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 07:36 PM   #7
TOLOCOMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Banff, Ab
Bikes: Norco Fluid 3, Cannondale R800, Trek 7.3FX
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not a fan of the way he chose to ride the race, but you gotta give him credit for sticking with his plan. He knew CSC was going to go to town on him, and he had to be able to let people go at times. From what I saw on Alpe d' Huez was that he was willing to give them 2 minutes. As soon as the gap got to 2 minutes exactly, he came to the front and started just time trialing the last bit. As I said, not the best strategy I don't think, but he had the discipline to go with his strategy.

I don't see any implication of doping in those comments. I see it as more of a "Oh ****, everybody's riding faster than me today. Guess my legs are kinda dead. Surprised everybody else is going faster than me.", kind of comment. I don't think there was any anger in it, just frustrated the plan didn't work. As was mentioned above, Sastra didn't do anything that fantastic, just an average TT for him. Difference was that Evans didn't have the race he expected. That's where the surprise came from.
TOLOCOMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 07:53 PM   #8
roadgator
raodmaster shaman
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: G-ville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What a gracious looser. Pure class.
roadgator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 07:54 PM   #9
The Weak Link
Banned.
 
The Weak Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Post-partisan Paradise
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Posts: 4,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anyone got anything nice to say about Sastre, the Mastre of Disastre no more. I think he had a great ride.
The Weak Link is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 08:05 PM   #10
Suzie Green
Cycler
 
Suzie Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Weak Link View Post
Anyone got anything nice to say about Sastre, the Mastre of Disastre no more. I think he had a great ride.
Absolutely! I think he rode exactly to plan on L'Alpe and followed it up by his ride today. The yellow jersey itself was probably worth 60 seconds in motivational time!
Suzie Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 08:14 PM   #11
yellowjeep
Senior Member
 
yellowjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence
Bikes:
Posts: 3,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sastre was never that bad of a TTer to start with. He has never been in a situation where the TT was make or break and he just rode his race and rode it well. Not outstanding, but well.

It was pretty cool. I never really have him much until I watched Overcoming. Then I realized what a selfless guy he really is. Like 2 days later he wins on Le Alp. That sealed it for me I am Sastre fan.
yellowjeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 08:21 PM   #12
SunSwingsLow
Senior Member
 
SunSwingsLow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxgtr View Post
Yea, Cadel's issue is his team was never there for him in the big mountain stages. Crashing twice could not have helped either. Of course if he would have attacked instead of wheel sucking up the mountains, he might have had the lead. CSC was a strong mountain team and blew Lotto out the door. Would have been nice too see what Astana would have done. CSC was the top team for sure.
Hows he supposed to attack when CSC has 3 men in the lead group and hes all alone?

Put Cadel on CSC and put Sastre on Lotto and Cadel wins this tour by 3 minutes.
SunSwingsLow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 09:21 PM   #13
MacMan
Sick ... again
 
MacMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Bikes:
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hope McEwen rips him a new one. "If I had a better team ..." Blah Blah Blah. Of course, while he might be right don't whinge in public - it is what it is. All he has done is slag off his team in public - he should have cleaned Sastre's clock in the final TT and he didn't.
MacMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 10:32 PM   #14
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan View Post
I hope McEwen rips him a new one. "If I had a better team ..." Blah Blah Blah. Of course, while he might be right don't whinge in public - it is what it is. All he has done is slag off his team in public - he should have cleaned Sastre's clock in the final TT and he didn't.
+1

Lotto was assembled to help Evans claim his tour. Robbie got no support. I think robbie deserved it, and Cadel is turning into the new Ricco with his whining about support. I didn't really like Cadel's riding style before this, and I really don't like Cadel now. His comments are just bullcrud.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 10:48 PM   #15
dahoss2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bossier City, La
Bikes: 70's Motobecane, 89 Centurion Ironman
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paniolo View Post
Though it is a little whiny to say it, the second point is true. If Cadel had any team support in the mountains he probably would have had the energy to ride a normal final TT and finish in yellow.
+1.......... CSC kept a "full court press" on Cadel all week and it definitely showed in his TT today. You see how tired the Schleck brothers were today. Evans is a little unjustly bitter and just venting right now.
dahoss2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 11:08 PM   #16
yellowjeep
Senior Member
 
yellowjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence
Bikes:
Posts: 3,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
+1

His comments are just bullcrud.
Bullcrud=awesome word.
yellowjeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 11:11 PM   #17
vic32amg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gilbert AZ
Bikes: Cervelo S5 SRAM Red -
Posts: 1,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cadel will be on Olegs new team Katusha. I am certain he will not be on lotto. They have the biggest budget and will certainly be VERY strong next year. Stegmanns , Pozzato, keep them coming!!!

Also I find Sastre win more impressive than that of contrador. For AC the tour fell in his lap. He did make it exciting but he did not win the Jersey. It was given to him. Sastre's tour was won by team and pure strategy.

It is true Cadel had no support so I would probably whine also. Cadel also raced a full schedule which Sastre did not. he was very (god forbid) " lance like" in focusing only on the tour and it paid off.

I said at the begining he would win as he was the most focused. and as the raced progressed I stuck with it and was waiting for stage 17.

This victo is sweet as since I started cycling and watching the tour and CSC had basso I always felt Sastre was teh more genuine cyclist. Also felt that his role would never be that of leader. Once Basso went out the back door I was pumped, even tho i liked him I thought it was Sastre time to shine. It didn't happen because of injuries and bad luck but , stuff happens. It's nice to see that nice guys ca finish first every now and then.

qoute: Just to add to the "Sastre is a great guy" pile: he has a fanclub in Belgium, who -at his request- donate their yearly membership fees and money from their fundraising to the Child Cancer Fund in the city of Ghent. In fact, he doubles every donation made by them and has visited the hospital of Ghent on several occasions. According to the president of the fan club, only a handful of the kids really knew who he was (probably gonna change now, I suppose) but he still made the effort. And it's not like a rider like Sastre spends a lot of time in Belgium during the season.

Class.

and another story ... in the video interview "Stage 19 Cadel Evans Pre-race" on the SBS site Evans mentions how in his first Tour (2005) when he was really on his own and Sastre was riding for Basso, Sastre would help him out by getting him Cokes/bottles in the high mountains (Evans was asked about Sastre "as a person" and this was an example of the respect he has for him).
vic32amg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-08, 11:39 PM   #18
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think that Cadel's behavior all comes down to frustration. What with Contador likely back in the picture next year, and with a host of promising younger talents developing, Cadel might well have thought this was his only (or at least his best) shot for the title. Hopefully, he'll reflect back on his behavior and carry himself with a little more dignity in the future.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 04:50 AM   #19
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxgtr View Post
Yea, Cadel's issue is his team was never there for him in the big mountain stages. Crashing twice could not have helped either. Of course if he would have attacked instead of wheel sucking up the mountains, he might have had the lead. CSC was a strong mountain team and blew Lotto out the door. Would have been nice too see what Astana would have done. CSC was the top team for sure.
It's extremely difficult to attack, when "his team was never there for him on the big mountain stages."

He's getting attacked and hanging on. Something he did fairly well.

Good grief.

By the way, those of you that have a copy of "Overcoming", go back and watch that and look at the Sastre that's in that documentary (the one Riis keeps picking on because of the way he behaves) and the one that won the Tour. Big difference.

For those that are being critical of Evans "sitting in"...Sastre essentially did the same thing until D'Huez. He picked his spot and went. You win with your head, not your testosterone.

Maybe some cat 4's and 5's can learn from that.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 07-27-08 at 04:55 AM.
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 05:07 AM   #20
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
+1

Lotto was assembled to help Evans claim his tour. Robbie got no support. I think robbie deserved it, and Cadel is turning into the new Ricco with his whining about support. I didn't really like Cadel's riding style before this, and I really don't like Cadel now. His comments are just bullcrud.
Well they did a lousy job.

Fact is they essentially brought in one rider that could help. Fact is that when the race really started last week, they were nowhere to be found. Popovych rode decently, Aerts rode the best I've seen him outside of the classics. It's still a classics team with Evans and Popovych. Hoste was brought into Disco to help beef up their classics side. Not due to his great climbing skills. He's a three time Belgian Time Trial National Champion. A team made up of mostly Belgians (5 of their 9 starters) is not going to be strong in the mountains. And that's where the Tour is generally won.

Fact is that you can't win one against three or four. I see a lot of similarity between this year's Lotto and the 1999 US Postal team. Difference is that Cadel is not Lance. Lance won that race virtually on his own. That's damn tough to do.
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 07:36 AM   #21
rankin116
Senior Member
 
rankin116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ChapelBorro NC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,939
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I think Evans road the best race he could have. Just like RW said, how the hell is he supposed to attack when the CSC train is dragging their people up the mountains? All he can do is hang on. And he did it well. He just didn't have the legs for the TT.

And to the OP, I read those quotes, and never once that he was implying that people were doping. I think you're reading too much into it. He was surprised that he wasn't gaining time, I don't think saying "I got some time checks from the other riders and thought, 'What's going on here?"' means 'they're doping.'
rankin116 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 08:52 AM   #22
MnHillBilly
Joyously Phred
 
MnHillBilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 600 miles from the nearest flat road
Bikes: Raleigh Passage 3.0, Giant Halfway 2007 folding, Trek Lime Easy-Step
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
I think Evans road the best race he could have. Just like RW said, how the hell is he supposed to attack when the CSC train is dragging their people up the mountains? All he can do is hang on. And he did it well. He just didn't have the legs for the TT.

And to the OP, I read those quotes, and never once that he was implying that people were doping. I think you're reading too much into it. He was surprised that he wasn't gaining time, I don't think saying "I got some time checks from the other riders and thought, 'What's going on here?"' means 'they're doping.'
+1 about the conclusion leap re: doping. Not what I see in that statement at all. Reads more like a statement of surprise than an accusation. Way too much being read into that one statement. There's enough drama with the real doping going on - why create more where there is none?
MnHillBilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 09:00 AM   #23
SpongeDad
Overacting because I can
 
SpongeDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Posts: 4,552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not sure I agree. No one is going to come out and say doping - it's always a sly reference.

I remember after the Giro, there was a rider talking about Basso being from Mars or something like that. Everyone pretty much understood that as a circumspect way of saying Basso doped.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
SpongeDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 09:17 AM   #24
MnHillBilly
Joyously Phred
 
MnHillBilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 600 miles from the nearest flat road
Bikes: Raleigh Passage 3.0, Giant Halfway 2007 folding, Trek Lime Easy-Step
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
But expressing suprise that he himself wasn't as far ahead as he thought he would/should be is light years of difference from saying the other guys were from Mars and therefore implying doping. Everyone thought he would have a better time trial yesterday. I don't think anyone saw the top 6 performances and went "what the heck." Everyone who saw Ricco climb past the leaders 2 weeks ago was shouting "what the heck." Not every reference is a veiled reference to doping - sometimes people are expressing disappointment in their own performance.
MnHillBilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-08, 09:37 AM   #25
urodacus
Large Member
 
urodacus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Okinawa
Bikes: 05 Giant TCR 0; 83 Colnago Saronni; 81 San Rensho Katana Super Export track bike, #A116-56; 97 GT Zaskar
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
evans said in a velonews interview:
“I rode well and I believe I made a good time trial, but my rivals were just incredible,” said a disappointed Evans. “I wasn’t nervous at all. I was always calm. I tried to do the best I could, but they beat us. Carlos Sastre was stronger and he counted on a great team.”

now how is that 'whining', donrhummy, suzie creemcheese and zorro? he's stating the facts as they happened and saying that the better man won. it's called 'being honest'. nice to see you guys wearing your disdain for him openly.

congratulations to sastre and to the CSC team tactics for a great Alpe d'Huez ride that won the tour for them. maybe next year, cadel. he also raced extremely well and you have to give him credit for that. any of you whingers good enough for a top five placing in the TdF, four years in a row? maybe then you can point the bone.

and it's spelt 'losers', not 'loosers'. if you're going to criticise someone, do it properly.
urodacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:28 AM.