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Old 10-01-08, 05:39 PM   #26
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I've always wondered what affect the chemotherapy, etc. had on Lance.

I remember not being able to get angry about anything for years after I finished chemo back in 1980. Since I wasn't athletic at the time I don't know if it affected me in any way related to endurance etc. Of course now, I have to deal with the occasional tumor that developed due to the chemo.
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Old 10-01-08, 06:55 PM   #27
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I also think Trek dropping his brand is another reason for this.
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Old 10-02-08, 04:57 AM   #28
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i'm not clear as to why it's a bad move on greg lemond's part. perhaps i question his motives. is lemond jealous? could he have won 6 or more tours if he wasn't shot in the chest and didn't give hinault a free win? is he just trying to portray himself as the last clean tdf winner, before epo, hgh, autologous transfusions, etc became mainstream? or perhaps he really wants to do his part to clean up a dirty sport? whatever. we make our own conclusions, and in the end, we probably won't care about the opinions of those who disagree with us. i doubt lemond or armstrong give a crap what any of us think.

if we care about doping in cycling, lemond brings up some good points. doping controls are predictable, and if you know you will beat the controls, it doesn't matter how frequently you are tested. merely passing some tests doesn't prove innocence. lemond's statement calls into question the knowledge and validity of armstrong's pocket doping expert.

if we don't care about doping or believe armstrong is not a doper, then armstrong was the strongest guy on the strongest team for 7 straight years, and why are you reading this? all of armstrong's competition (ullrich, pantani, hamilton, landis, heras, basso, and vinokourov, to name the ones that come to mind)has been sanctioned for doping. if armstrong wasn't clean, was he cheating any more than anyone else? and please don't mention the cancer crap. to suggest that armstrong won 7 straight tours because cancer made him lighter and tougher is idiocy. how many other people has cancer made superhuman? shiit maybe i should start smoking...

here is an interesting development: today the french anti-doping authority offered to retest armstrong's 6 positive samples (epo) from 1999, for which he has never satisfactorily answered. the ball (lance's one superduper post-cancer nut) is in lance's court. i am curious as to how he will respond to this. i think he is a doper and a liar, but also the strongest rider in 7 straight tours de france.
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Old 10-02-08, 06:23 AM   #29
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You're behind. Lance already replied.

When I started this thread, it was because I was put off by Greg's means. Regardless of his motives (which only he truly knows), I consider the rude manner in which he chooses to pursue his crusade inexcusable.

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i'm not clear as to why it's a bad move on greg lemond's part. perhaps i question his motives. is lemond jealous? could he have won 6 or more tours if he wasn't shot in the chest and didn't give hinault a free win? is he just trying to portray himself as the last clean tdf winner, before epo, hgh, autologous transfusions, etc became mainstream? or perhaps he really wants to do his part to clean up a dirty sport? whatever. we make our own conclusions, and in the end, we probably won't care about the opinions of those who disagree with us. i doubt lemond or armstrong give a crap what any of us think.

if we care about doping in cycling, lemond brings up some good points. doping controls are predictable, and if you know you will beat the controls, it doesn't matter how frequently you are tested. merely passing some tests doesn't prove innocence. lemond's statement calls into question the knowledge and validity of armstrong's pocket doping expert.

if we don't care about doping or believe armstrong is not a doper, then armstrong was the strongest guy on the strongest team for 7 straight years, and why are you reading this? all of armstrong's competition (ullrich, pantani, hamilton, landis, heras, basso, and vinokourov, to name the ones that come to mind)has been sanctioned for doping. if armstrong wasn't clean, was he cheating any more than anyone else? and please don't mention the cancer crap. to suggest that armstrong won 7 straight tours because cancer made him lighter and tougher is idiocy. how many other people has cancer made superhuman? shiit maybe i should start smoking...

here is an interesting development: today the french anti-doping authority offered to retest armstrong's 6 positive samples (epo) from 1999, for which he has never satisfactorily answered. the ball (lance's one superduper post-cancer nut) is in lance's court. i am curious as to how he will respond to this. i think he is a doper and a liar, but also the strongest rider in 7 straight tours de france.
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Old 10-02-08, 06:28 AM   #30
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Lemond's motives are simple. make cycling, and by proxy all sports, fair and safe.

he just has a grating approach and gets in the face of people. is it wrong ? one thing for sure
he gets press. any press is good press...he keeps the drug issues on the front page

as long as he doesn't lie...or speculate....
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Old 10-03-08, 03:37 AM   #31
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Lemond's motives are simple. make cycling, and by proxy all sports, fair and safe.

he just has a grating approach and gets in the face of people. is it wrong ? one thing for sure
he gets press. any press is good press...he keeps the drug issues on the front page

as long as he doesn't lie...or speculate....
Those are his stated motives. Given his actions though, I have to wonder whether there's more to it than that. If I was so driven to make cycling drug free, I wouldn't be going about it by trying to discredit riders - past or present. That's the job for the labs and the anti-doping agencies. What the heck is there to be gained by slinging unprovable allegations about? You think ASO, UCI and many of the Pro Teams aren't getting the message?

The situation is improving, but I honestly don't see how Greg is advancing things.
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Old 10-03-08, 10:05 AM   #32
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lemond's statement calls into question the knowledge and validity of armstrong's pocket doping expert.
I believe Don Catlin is recognized as one of the foremost anti doping experts in the US. As the head UCLA’s WADA Agency accredited laboratory (also widely recognized as one of the best labs in the world) he was the expert brought in by WADA to validate dope test procedures in court. I think he was one of the driving forces behind the development of useable EPO test. I have read articles by him a few years ago trying to develop methods to address testings biggest problem ... that the tests always lag behind the current drug of choice. Things like genetic and athletic performance profiles to identify unreasonable spikes in performance as indicative of doping rather than a positive test for a specific drug.

At least Catlin is doing something proactive to address the issue of doping in sport. So he is being paid to do it by Armstrong ... somebody has to pay for it, it doesn't happen gratis. Team Highroad and CSC, who get good marks for running clean programs, pay for their own testing too ... and to my understanding are not going to the extent that Armstrongs program is planning. LeMond seems to be flailing at the windmills of the past while contributing nothing to proactively deal with the current and future doping problem.
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Old 10-03-08, 04:46 PM   #33
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Lemond's motives are simple. make cycling, and by proxy all sports, fair and safe.
He isn't doing anything for that. If that were his motive he wouldn't be following one person around.
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Old 10-03-08, 08:02 PM   #34
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Lemond has an attitude and a chip on his shoulder. When he rode & won he was not a hero or a celebrity in the USA other than from a select group of admirers that followed the sport. LA surpassed the accomplishments of GL and is the record holder, with all of the celebrity and fame.
For those that did not read LA's books, he did in fact DOPE during his chemo with EPO when his chances of survival were <10% per the medical wisdom. Maybe he became a mini hulk without all of the green goo.
If you have followed GL rants and his history with his bike brand and the relationship, or lack thereof with Trek and the late Trek president. True to form, he was a radical with them before, during and after their agreement and relationship.
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Old 10-05-08, 07:56 AM   #35
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To some Lemond is a madman. An insane stalker who just won't leave Armstrong alone no matter where they may be together.

It's hilarious, entertaining and most importantly ticks off the "Haters" thus creating bad publicity for ol Greg.


If you just see the whole thing for what it is then you too, will find the humor in it. I mean cmon... Lance goes up to give a speech and Greg is right there front row center. HILARIOUS!
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Old 10-05-08, 06:15 PM   #36
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... If you just see the whole thing for what it is then you too, will find the humor in it. I mean cmon... Lance goes up to give a speech and Greg is right there front row center. HILARIOUS!
And LA let him ask the first question just to get the little troll out of the way.
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Old 10-06-08, 05:49 AM   #37
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Lemond's motives are simple. make cycling, and by proxy all sports, fair and safe.
Settle it fair and square. Make them ride Western Flyer tricycles.
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Old 10-06-08, 09:01 PM   #38
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The problem I have with Lemonds' approach is his total black and white perspective on the matter. His absolute belief in the VOmax and wattage test is such that we might as well just give everyone the test and assign places in the race without racing since no one can ever perform above that which occurs in a "lab tested situation". This implies that the lab test is 100 percent valid in other circumstances and that we know absolutely everything there is to know about how the human body works. If this is true why haven't we cured cancer and other problems.

Unfortunately the "lab test" does not include how things like faith, will, pain endurance and other motivations effect the human body in a real competition. Nor as Lemond describes it allow for anyone to improve thier performance beyond a certain genetic baseline. Lemond believes that Lance could not ride faster than him without drugs because in testing Lemond had one of the highest VOmax ever recorded at 92 or some such high number. Several points higher than Lances Vomax. There is certainly some credibility to this arguement but there are certainly other things going on in the body which may effect oxygen utilization and some of which may not yet be understood.

It is now being learned that the human body is more than only a chemical machine so there is a whole lot more to this picture than just basic chemistry. What I am waiting to see is a rider with Lemonds genetics and Armstrongs discipline, will power and pain endurance. That rider would be superman

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