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Old 10-04-08, 08:16 AM   #1
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No! No! No! NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!

This is not the kind of news I need to see on a Saturday morning after a really enjoyable twenty mile commute to work:

http://www.velonews.com/article/8399...-rejoin-astana

I can't believe that Johann will be this stupid.
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Old 10-04-08, 10:45 AM   #2
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The problem is, Vino has an incredible amount of clout with the owners. This might be forced on Bruyneel from on high, against his wishes.

Can you say "Soap Opera".
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Old 10-04-08, 12:42 PM   #3
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Well, my eyebrows shot up too.

In retrospect, it could be a lot of fun for us fans. Can you imagine Vino and Lance trying to get along on the same event team? Do Khazaks recognize Marquis of Queensberry rules? Vino is a heck of a rider. His problem has always been lack of discipline. Johann won't put up with any crap, I can guarantee. If Vino doesn't pull his **** together he won't be riding any big events.


In larger consideration, there has to be some way for doping transgressors to reform. Euro's claims that "they all do it" seem to have been right (or more right than we were willing to credit). The way to eliminate doping is not simply to exile all transgressors. There are two other parts to the solution. 1) Eliminate the cultural basis for it. Have the teams become the doping police instead of the co-conspirators they have long been. 2) Demonstrate that clean riders can be competitive.

This last is what demands that punished dopers be readmitted. The question potential dopers have is, "How much better will doping make me?" The only answer is by comparing well-known riders both with and without dope. If star riders can come back from a ban and perform at or near the same level, it becomes obvious that doping isn't worth the risk. Banned dopers must be allowed back in - until a second transgression.

And athletes do reform. Look at the Dallas Cowboys. Lots of "problem children" on that team that are no longer problems. Why? Because they've seen the result and didn't like it. And because the Cowboys take no crap. F* up and you're gone.

From that point of view, I'd love to see Vino come back to Astana. Could be like having a young Jens Voigt on the team.
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Old 10-04-08, 02:23 PM   #4
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Vino is stating Astana, but I don't think he has expections of being resigned by them.

I think he's throwing some bait out there to see who will bite and possibly sign him up.

I think it would be great for the tour, he's so volatile.
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Old 10-04-08, 02:36 PM   #5
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if it were not for vino, there might not have ever been an astana team. what are the issues with him? too many chiefs and not enough indians? or that he's been caught doping? bruyneel is clever. wins the giro and vuelta and he is unaware that armstrong and vino want to join? haha

edit: i wonder if the new aso boss would exclude astana again? adding armstrong to the astana team is iffy, but adding a proven doper is too much
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Old 10-04-08, 05:01 PM   #6
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A couple of other details that weren't on-line when I made the original post this morning. Both are cut and pasted from the latest cyclingnews.com:

1. "The 35 year-old said that he does not plan to ride the Tour de France. "My first goal is the Giro," he said, according to sporza.be."

2. "Vinokourov may run into some obstacles to his planned return. UCI president Pat McQuaid said the rider would have to complete a two-year suspension. "There is no way he comes back until he agrees on the two-year suspension," McQuaid told Reuters on Saturday. "The UCI had a case pending with the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), which we only withdrew because he announced he was retiring.""

Obviously, nothing's a done deal. Nowhere.
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Old 10-04-08, 08:43 PM   #7
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If Vino is on Astana, they can kiss the TdF good bye. ASO will never give them an invite.
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Old 10-04-08, 09:08 PM   #8
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If Vino is on Astana, they can kiss the TdF good bye. ASO will never give them an invite.
I don't think he'll make it to Astant; I think another team will pick him up. That is assuming the ASO will let him ride, re: previous comments made earlier about a possible 2 year ban for Vino.
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Old 10-04-08, 10:53 PM   #9
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If Vino is on Astana, they can kiss the TdF good bye. ASO will never give them an invite.
Agreed. If Bruyneel is trying to convince ASO that they're not the Astana of old, I can not think of a worse move than signing Vino again.

However Michael Ball and Rock Racing are probably foaming at the mouth at the idea of signing Vino.
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Old 10-05-08, 08:08 AM   #10
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Vino needs to be at Lance's side as a beacon to the cycling community that cleanliness is next to godliness.
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Old 10-07-08, 11:13 AM   #11
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if it were not for vino, there might not have ever been an astana team. what are the issues with him? too many chiefs and not enough indians? or that he's been caught doping?
Both. Though his fame as a loose cannon came when we was with T-Mobile.
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Old 10-07-08, 01:36 PM   #12
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Vino needs to be at Lance's side as a beacon to the cycling community that cleanliness is next to godliness.
Classic. That made my day!
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Old 10-08-08, 10:59 PM   #13
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Agreed. If Bruyneel is trying to convince ASO that they're not the Astana of old, I can not think of a worse move than signing Vino again.

However Michael Ball and Rock Racing are probably foaming at the mouth at the idea of signing Vino.
Vino could be a perfect fit at Rock racing. It already the team of choice for show-boaters and ex-dopers. Ball would get 2 for one.
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Old 10-09-08, 06:44 PM   #14
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Vino could be a perfect fit at Rock racing. It already the team of choice for show-boaters and ex-dopers. Ball would get 2 for one.
Isn't Tyler Hamilton the top dog in that pack?
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Old 10-09-08, 07:18 PM   #15
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Vino needs to be at Lance's side as a beacon to the cycling community that cleanliness is next to godliness.
Vino is GOD???

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Old 10-13-08, 04:28 AM   #16
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All we need now is for Willie Voet to sign up as chief soigneur
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Old 10-19-08, 09:49 AM   #17
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hmmm, I dont know if I like the idea. My kidsstarted watching the tour with me, and they were getting all excited watching vino ride. Then he got booted. I feltlike apologizing to my kids.
I'm all about second chances, but I'm still irritated. I also Love the way Astana looks right now, lets not blow their chances of returning to the tour. The French have done enough of that.
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Old 10-19-08, 04:36 PM   #18
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Yeah I agree with 1bluetrek. I've had enough of Vino's antics...put him on Rock Racing if he needs to do something. I'd really like to see a clean season. Call me jaded, but there it is.
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Old 10-23-08, 09:18 AM   #19
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I think it would make for a fantastic year of racing, and would be even more entertaining to watch. Having stated that, I can't imagine that it's possible. He's just got too much baggage. In other words - HE GOT CAUGHT.

It's difficult for me to exclude, or to treat Vino differently than the other dopers of his day (or this day for that matter) just because he was unlucky enough to get nabbed. And what about the others who have been caught, paid their debt, and are now back? Riders like like Basso and Millar. Should they also be excluded based on their past also? Apparently cycling thinks not.

... Brad
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Old 11-05-08, 11:58 AM   #20
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I like Vino ... with my beef.
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Old 11-05-08, 03:06 PM   #21
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Vino will have to sit out another year at least. So any talk about joining Astana this year is just a pipe dream. The owners of Astana are going to have to think hard about giving the green light or forcing the team to add/sign Vino, even if he is one of the homeboys. Last thing Astana needs is for someone on their team to get busted. Maybe they should change their name to 'Gulag'...lol...j/k
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