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  1. #1
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Armstrong breached doping rules?

    This seems little over blown.

    PARIS (Reuters) Lance Armstrong violated anti-doping rules during a random test in Southern France and could face disciplinary action, the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) said Thursday.

    The seven-times Tour de France champion "did not respect the obligation to stay under (the) direct and permanent observation" of the tester, the AFLD said in a statement.

    The 37-year-old American, who returned to the sport in January after 3 1/2 years retirement, denied any wrongdoing on Tuesday.

    Armstrong was asked to provide urine, blood and hair samples when returning from a training ride around Beaulieu-sur-Mer last month.

    "In a letter sent to the Agency on April 8, UCI (International Cycling Union) president Pat McQuaid said an interpretation of the World Anti-Doping code and UCI anti-doping rules confers the AFLD the right to open a disciplinary procedure against Lance Armstrong," the statement read.

    "The AFLD is competent to impose disciplinary sanctions to people who do not hold a French license but train on the national territory."

    Any sanction imposed on Armstrong would be valid on French territory only.

    Armstrong is set to ride the Tour de France, which starts in Monaco on July 4.

    In a statement Tuesday, Armstrong explained: "We told the tester we wanted to check with the UCI to confirm who he was and to make sure he wasn't just some French guy with a backpack and some equipment to take my blood and urine.

    "Johan (Bruyneel, Astana team manager) stayed with him and in his presence called the UCI to find out what was going on.

    "We asked if it was OK for me to run inside and shower while they made their calls and the tester said that was fine."

    Armstrong has had a difficult relationship with Tour organizers, the Amaury Sport Organization (ASO), who said last year the 37-year-old's return to the race would be "embarrassing."

    In 2005, French sports daily L'Equipe, owned by ASO's parent company EPA (Editions Philippe Amaury), claimed samples of Armstrong's urine from the 1999 race showed traces of the banned blood-boosting substance erythropoietin.

    However, Armstrong never tested positive and was cleared by a Dutch investigator appointed by UCI.

    AFLD president Pierre Bordry last year invited Armstrong to have his 1999 samples re-tested but the Texan declined, arguing they could have been compromised.
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  2. #2
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Master your environment, and you will survive just fine.
    Chances favor the prepared mind.

  3. #3
    Big Mac and No hills. 800over's Avatar
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    tempest in a teapot + Witchhunt = French doping police

  4. #4
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    Every single little incident may be overblown, but at some point, the preponderance of accumulated incidents starts adding up to something.

  5. #5
    Senior Member adam's Avatar
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    Wonder if it would seem over blown if it wasn't Lance?

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    While in general I tend to be on Lance's side in this case, one thing bothers me.

    It is very basic that once a tester shows up you do not leave his sight. One would think 'the most tested athlete ever' would know this so deep down that he almost could not forget. And even if Lance did forget how could his handlers?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Kestrelman's Avatar
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    Good question, Keith99. Also, as stated in 1 of the articles, he conceivably could have "switched" urine while in the shower. So, is urine testing unique from blood and hair testing? In other words, what could they missed in urine testing that would not have shown up in the other tests?

    BTW - I don't believe he's guilty.

  8. #8
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm in the minority, but if a person claims to be an UCI official and ask me to provide samples for dope test, seems to me pretty clear that I should review their credentials, provide the samples until the official is satified. If there is concern about the officials credentials, I could have them checked after providing the samples.

    Asking for permission to shower prior to providing the samples does not seem like a proper, nor permittable request; seems to me both parties have made mistake.
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  9. #9
    Miles over Matter spoke50's Avatar
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    Lance's last tweet < Is winning the tour 7 times offensive!?> 1hr ago

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
    Maybe I'm in the minority, but if a person claims to be an UCI official and ask me to provide samples for dope test, seems to me pretty clear that I should review their credentials, provide the samples until the official is satified. If there is concern about the officials credentials, I could have them checked after providing the samples.
    I think an athlete has every right to confirm credentials *before* providing samples. Can we really expect athletes to provide urine, blood and hair samples to anyone with "official" credentials. These credentials are forged easily enough. Apparently there was something about this testers credentials that raised some sort of suspicion. I see no issue with verifying the credentials *before* giving vials of blood to someone you have doubts about.

    This was Lance's 24th test since his return. Apparently something doubt the authenticity of this person or something wasn't right about the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by cat0020
    Asking for permission to shower prior to providing the samples does not seem like a proper, nor permittable request; seems to me both parties have made mistake.
    Depending on whose side you ask, it seems the tester said that was fine if Lance took a shower.

    And even with the 20 minute delay, sure a urine test could have been invalidated through some trickery, but the hair test which came back clean? What kind of shampoo is Lance using that being out of sight for 20 minutes would make a difference for the hair test?

    So yes a mistake in letting the 20 minutes go by unsupervised may have been made. But, if the tester said it was okay - sounds like its the test agency's mistake and hardly worth trying to apply sanctions to Lance.

  11. #11
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Lance: I just want to verify who you are.

    Inspector: ok

    Lance: Is it ok if I take a shower while we make the calls?

    Inspector: no prob

    What is LA suppose to do?

    LA: Maybe I should just sit here and wait until we know who you are, that way there will be no confusion; meanwhile, do you want me to pee on you (or your country)? oh, pardon my french, I meant pee in a cup.

    If a policeman tells me that I could walk away from my vehicle for 20 minutes while I'm pulled over, seems to me common sense that I won't leave my vehcile to be planted evidence.
    Master your environment, and you will survive just fine.
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  12. #12
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    This seems to me to be just a communication problem. I would not be surprised that the French doping authority never notified the athletes who their testers were. In fact, this was one of the problems. Lance had never been tested by a non UCI or WADA affiliated tester. So this guy could have been anybody. But the guy tells Lance he can go shower and then afterwards calls him for a bad attitude and for obstructing the testing procedure. I think the guy was just bend out of shape because his authority was not respected and acted with a double standard. Or he was deliberatly trying to get Armstrong to make some mistake. But considering the situation it is easy to see the problem. Lance would have been tired and perhaps a little out of patience. He had been out on the bike all that day. But the French will use any angle they can against Lance because they believe that he is guilty of doping.

    We have already seen in the Landis case how the French believe they are above any law or generally accepted standard of conduct when it comes to enforcing their anti doping standards.

  13. #13
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    the french really have it in for him. why does he even mess with racing the tour again? but, it would really irk them bad if he goes and wins it again! ha!

  14. #14
    Warrior Cyclist cycle17's Avatar
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    This is all such bull*h!t.... typical of the French to make a big deal out of nothing! Did he fail the tests?...NO! And what exactly could he accomplish in twenty minutes? It's just absurd! Screw the TDF!.... ride the Giro.
    Just Do It..

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycle17 View Post
    This is all such bull*h!t.... typical of the French to make a big deal out of nothing! Did he fail the tests?...NO! And what exactly could he accomplish in twenty minutes? It's just absurd! Screw the TDF!.... ride the Giro.
    Well cycle17 ... he could have emptied his bladder and refilled it with a nice fresh but clean supply of urine, shaved his head and pasted on a wig of hair from his "clean marathon days" and then undergone a full body blood dialysis to replace his tainted blood with that he stored from 1998.

    You obviously aren't fit to work in a French blood lab ...

  16. #16
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrelman View Post
    Good question, Keith99. Also, as stated in 1 of the articles, he conceivably could have "switched" urine while in the shower. So, is urine testing unique from blood and hair testing? In other words, what could they missed in urine testing that would not have shown up in the other tests?

    BTW - I don't believe he's guilty.
    My general impression is that urine will show transient things far better than blood or hair. But those things would seem to be things like stimulants, possibly very useful for races, but not for training.

    Not sure how ratio tests would work out. Remember this is testing for people who do not want to be found out. There might be lots more where somethign shows in blood, but not enough out of line to be an officially positive result while the urine gives an official positive.

    Lance clearly screwed up. Never should have even asked about the shower (or said come on and watch me shower while my guys call UCI).

    Now the tester was French Government, not UCI, credentials are surely very different. Perhaps LAnce was convinced he was phony and did not want to be bothered with him. But if it were me I would have played it totally as if he were legit, but not verified, but on the side called the gendarmes. And if he was phony have French justice nail him.

  17. #17
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
    Every single little incident may be overblown, but at some point, the preponderance of accumulated incidents starts adding up to something.
    You do funny math.

    0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0 still = 0

  18. #18
    Tilting with windmills txvintage's Avatar
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    The tester was not a French government employee, nor was he a memberof AFLD. He was an employee of the lab who did the testing and was there at the direction of the French government.

    This is one of the things that raised questions about his credentials since he was not from the AFLD. This was a deviation from the norm in that testers are sent from the anti doping agency such as WADA, UCI, etc, etc to collect samples. Sending a lab employee to collect samples is not the normal precedure.

    It would be very interesting to know just how many other athletes the French government has directly tested without sending a representative from AFLD.

  19. #19
    Pokes On Spokes JPradun's Avatar
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    Apparently, the inspector did not allow lance to take a shower. He was locked out of the house and told lance repeatedly that he cannot leave his sights.

    Even if lance wanted to check his credentials, he knew not to leave the tester's sights. Lance is f-ed for French races. Honestly, he should get a doping sanction internationally.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
    but at some point, the preponderance of accumulated incidents starts adding up to something.
    Such as the accumulation of hundreds of clean tests, including the one currently in discussion. I agree, it adds up. The French are the last people I would trust.
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  21. #21
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
    Such as the accumulation of hundreds of clean tests, including the one currently in discussion. I agree, it adds up. The French are the last people I would trust.
    "Clean test" samples should be collected according to rules, if samples are not collected according to rules of test subject staying within eyesight of the inspector, they should not be considered as valid test samples, whether hey are clean or not. The inspector should/could probably not have collected any samples once LA walks out of his sight (for certain mount of time) and noted the breach of rules on the spot, but instead he allowed LA to take a shower out of his sight, his own mistake. LA should have known better be out of sight.
    Last edited by cat0020; 04-11-09 at 07:44 AM.
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  22. #22
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    this is so ridiculous.

  23. #23
    Cheers! 2wheeled's Avatar
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    Lance explaining the situation in a video blog, for all that are interested.
    http://tinyurl.com/c4bhol

  24. #24
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    Could this be lance provoking the doping officials so that they prevent him from riding the TDF. . .that Lance realizes he can't win nor compete over three weeks of racing so rather than start and drop or finish way down in the standings, he purposely creates and incident that gets him thrown out. . .and then blames the french.

    Note that I don't think it was a huge incident but he clearly broke protocols that he knew about. . ie, he isn't some first year pro who didn't know he can't leave the tester's sight.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Green Jager's Avatar
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    If it gets Lance out great!

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