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  1. #1
    fixed for the long haul 40 Cent's Avatar
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    Guess the Lance effect has its limits

    A dying sport?

    http://velonews.com/article/90606/a-shrinking-peloton

    I was hoping whole bunches of American kids were entering the sport inspired by their hero.

  2. #2
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    The truth needs to come out that Pharmstrong attained his position by taking more $hit than pro wrestlers and bodybuilders.

    Wake up!

    I wouldn't want my kid in that environment. Maybe there are alternative values out there.

  3. #3
    fixed for the long haul 40 Cent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    The truth needs to come out that Pharmstrong attained his position by taking more $hit than pro wrestlers and bodybuilders.

    Wake up!

    I wouldn't want my kid in that environment. Maybe there are alternative values out there.
    Couldn't agree more. I refuse to let my kids play sports. Still I watch bike racing when they're not around.

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    Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by 40 Cent View Post
    Couldn't agree more. I refuse to let my kids play sports. Still I watch bike racing when they're not around.
    i was too harsh here.

    The sports aren't bad. The perspective people put on them, who should know better, is what's bad.

    They're just games and we've elevated these guys to icon status.

  5. #5
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    The truth needs to come out that Pharmstrong attained his position by taking more $hit than pro wrestlers and bodybuilders.
    Prove it..... seriously.

  6. #6
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    Wake up, seriously

    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    Prove it..... seriously.
    Wake up; seriously!

    Anyone who doesn't understand what happened in Pro cycling during that time needs more help than I can give them.

    Jan Ullrich

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    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    I'll believe it when I see evidence. Just like Atlantis or Noah's ark. I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, its speculation and myth.

  8. #8
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    If you're not informed

    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    I'll believe it when I see evidence. Just like Atlantis or Noah's ark. I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, its speculation and myth.
    I can't help you. You do realize he was positive for corticoids in '99 and contrary to what Pharmstrong says, he did not have a TUE.

    This is a fact and if you do your research, you'll find out what the truth is.

    You do realize that Kevin Livingston was under investigation by the Italians in connection to Ferrari. His HCT went from 41 to almost 50 in less than 6 months. Pharmstrong introduced Livingston to Ferrari or do you believe it was the other way around.

    Idolatry is not good for you. The info is out there, read it. From Lance to Landis would be a good start.

  9. #9
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    I wonder why he's never truly tested positive. Not idolatry...i could care less, but he keeps getting accused without real proof. Everything you posted is circumstantial. No real hard numbers. Just talk.

  10. #10
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    I can't help you. You do realize he was positive for corticoids in '99 and contrary to what Pharmstrong says, he did not have a TUE.

    This is a fact and if you do your research, you'll find out what the truth is.

    .
    Out of all the things that point to Armstrong's doping, this one is the weakest.
    1. There's a difference between "traces" and "positive test" and it's not just symantics.
    2. There was nothing about the test that was inconsistent with plain old saddle sore cream in normal quantities no matter what stories went around and who said what.
    3. Neither the UCI nor any other agency involved ever considered it worth merit; it was entirely a press issue.

    I'm a fan of facts.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    Out of all the things that point to Armstrong's doping, this one is the weakest.
    1. There's a difference between "traces" and "positive test" and it's not just symantics.
    2. There was nothing about the test that was inconsistent with plain old saddle sore cream in normal quantities no matter what stories went around and who said what.
    3. Neither the UCI nor any other agency involved ever considered it worth merit; it was entirely a press issue.

    I'm a fan of facts.
    Me too. Went to school for science so I need facts.

  12. #12
    fixed for the long haul 40 Cent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    i was too harsh here.

    The sports aren't bad. The perspective people put on them, who should know better, is what's bad.

    They're just games and we've elevated these guys to icon status.
    My point wasn't really about drugs. More about the apparent slacking popularity of a sport despite the recent worldwide popularity of an athlete (I still remember the Pele effect in grade school -- not that my classmates went on to become pros).

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    It is not because there is a decline in talent. It's because there is a decline in the amount of pro contracts available.
    Numerous teams have folded because of the lack of sponsorship money.
    As much as people believe Lance can do anything, he can't turn the economy around.

  14. #14
    fixed for the long haul 40 Cent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinofan View Post
    It is not because there is a decline in talent. It's because there is a decline in the amount of pro contracts available.
    Numerous teams have folded because of the lack of sponsorship money.
    As much as people believe Lance can do anything, he can't turn the economy around.
    A decline in discovered and fostered talent. Sponsors sometimes sponsor despite the economy if the sport is popular. Just ask some of us New Yorkers who are grumbling about the new $1.5 billion Yankee Stadium when there are some other pressing issues.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinofan View Post
    It is not because there is a decline in talent. It's because there is a decline in the amount of pro contracts available.
    Numerous teams have folded because of the lack of sponsorship money.
    As much as people believe Lance can do anything, he can't turn the economy around.
    Then what use is he? At least one other cyclist has been credited with saving his country! If Lance were really a great cyclist he would make the economy boom. ( This is all jest, but the cyclist credited with saving his country is true, the credit at least).

  16. #16
    I am the Eggman Mooo's Avatar
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    Comments...
    The positive test, didn't it go away with a backdated prescription after a 500,000 euro donation to WADA? It's possible that I have the order of events wrong, but that's what I remember about it.

    But on topic ... I suspect there are several reasons sponsors are leaving.
    The perception of Armstrong is one, but the train wreck that is pro cycling - Tyler, Vino, Floyd, Jan, Basso, Heras ... If I was looking to spend advertising dollars no way would I spend a dime on cycling right now.

    And like it or not, Armstrong's curious reappearance probably just makes things worse. There is a cloud of suspicion that hangs around him, and no amount of lawyers can make it go away. It will be impossible for the sport to move forward until the "we-thought-were-greats-but-aren't-too-sure-anymores" of the late 80's through mid 90's go away and don't come back.

    I bet you could put a money figure on it. Every time Lance sues a journalist, you hear the sound of $500,000 leaving the sport. Every time a new name is linked to Puerto, every time a podium finisher tests positive, every time a big name star asks for a court hearing, pow, another hundred grand.
    Floyd with the prank call... there's 10,000,000 from the sport in that one event.*

    And the sponsorships go away with the money.

    *(numbers approximate, YMMV, do not use while operating heavy equipment or nursing, normal disclaimers apply, some people may experience dizzyness, headaches, and nausea)

  17. #17
    Senior Member EatMyA**'s Avatar
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    Thats because the organizers are stupid as hell. Too much money in advertising and media, not enough on the race.

    I saw the winner of the last stage of the Tour of California get a $5000 check. Really? just $5000?

    I know they get paid by other means as well but the PUBLIC does not.

    Give the winner $10,000,000 instead and you will see the TV deals and media coverage COME TO YOU. You dont have to give them money, you just have to look like you have a lot of it. you will see a soar in popularity especially amoung the lower income sector. All of a sudden being a little *** in spandex isn't so stupid. "I may be a *** but I am rich"

  18. #18
    raodmaster shaman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    The truth needs to come out that Pharmstrong attained his position by taking more $hit than pro wrestlers and bodybuilders.

    Wake up!

    I wouldn't want my kid in that environment. Maybe there are alternative values out there.
    If you dont love lance, you love cancer.

    and we all know cancer is bad, so lance must be good. he beat cancer with nothing but his own willpower....

  19. #19
    Senior Member EatMyA**'s Avatar
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    Oh and sponsors dont give a hoot about steroids. They all say they do but thats for public relations. Thing is if there is interest (profit opportunities), the athletes could be shooting up nuclear waste and the sponsors wouldn't care. Athletes dont matter in business, all that matters is if they can produce. or as they say "put asses in the seats".

  20. #20
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    No facts from the Paceline or Pharmstrongs twitter page

    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    Out of all the things that point to Armstrong's doping, this one is the weakest.
    1. There's a difference between "traces" and "positive test" and it's not just symantics.
    2. There was nothing about the test that was inconsistent with plain old saddle sore cream in normal quantities no matter what stories went around and who said what.
    3. Neither the UCI nor any other agency involved ever considered it worth merit; it was entirely a press issue.

    I'm a fan of facts.
    You can also go to the UCI and see this his tests from in competition.(podiums, jersey wearer, stage winner)

    * 1999 : 15 contrôles urinaires conventionnels (1 positif à la triamcinolone acétonide - corticoïdes, 14 négatifs)
    * 2000 : 12 contrôles urinaires conventionnels (tous négatifs)
    * 2001 : 10 contrôles urinaires conventionnels, dont 5 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs)
    * 2002 : 9 contrôles urinaires conventionnels incluant la recherche d'HES, dont 8 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs)
    * 2003 : 9 contrôles urinaires conventionnels incluant la recherche d'HES, dont 6 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs)
    * 2004 : 8 contrôles urinaires conventionnels incluant la recherche d'HES, dont 7 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs). 1 contrôle sanguin de détection des hémoglobines de synthèse (négatif)

    Check out the 1999 results....so much for "Never Tested Positive" Even the UCI counts that as a positive.


    Where did you get your facts from? The Paceline or Pharmstrong's twitter page aren't credible sources you know.

    The fact is that Armstrong checked off no when asked if he had any TUE's prior to the '99 tour. He reiterated that to the press. 2 weeks after the positive they came up with the backdated prescription and the completely apocryphal story which you bought hook line and sinker.

    You're the one engaging in semantics. He was positive and even the UCI, a completely corrupt organization, lists him as positive.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-17-09 at 07:48 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member rufvelo's Avatar
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    It may not be cycling that is dying. Sports in general are taking a hit given the economy. Doping is the final straw with fans who've already had enough.

  22. #22
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Corticosteroids are not the same as anabolic steroids and are not PED's. They reduce inflammation, not build muscle. LA used a cream for saddle sores, had the prescription, and the test was within the acceptable limits for use anyway. LA may or may not have used PED's, but as far as I can tell there's no hard evidence to prove it.

    At any rate, I expect the loss of UCI-registered riders is due to teams pulling out -- perhaps as fallout from the miscellaneous scandals and loss of sponsors. If the numbers include Europeans (which is likely), I doubt there was much of a "Lance effect" in Europe to begin with.

  23. #23
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    What's butt cream gonna do for you besides make your butt not sore? Seriously...that's so stupid.

  24. #24
    raodmaster shaman
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    ERRRRR. wrong.

    That butt cream is a steriod. With the same effects as all the others (i.e. increased muscle mass faster recovery). IIRC it can also mask the use of other steroids.

    If only it was innocent ass-cream.

  25. #25
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    You guys really don't have a clue. Corticosteroids are some of the most abused PED's in the pro peloton. Kenacort is the biggie. Here's a link for you. Chris Carmichael settled out of court with Greg Strock because he was injecting him with corticoids. They are banned substances for a reason and it doesn't matter how much shows up in a doping control.

    Greg Strock became very sick with a suppressed immune system because of a parvovirus. This parvovirus may play a role in testicular cancer.

    That whole saddle sore cream is a story made up by Pharmstrong and the Hog. Do you guys belong to the Pharmstrong fan boy club?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...16/1066656.htm

    "In June, 1994, a team doctor gave me a shot of Kenacort and it went on from there," he said.
    Kenacort is a corticosteroid, a banned substance which reduces fatigue and swelling.
    Gaumont said he was amazed by the quantity of drugs he had to take before time trials.
    "An intravenous injection of Fonzylane to dilate the veins and let the blood spread well. Some injectable caffeine. A pill of Theostat so that I could breathe easily and some analgesic to stop pain," he said.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-17-09 at 08:50 PM.

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