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Thread: Watts/kg @ FTP

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    The myth that when you get right down to it, he's still a badass?

    You should nut up, get your UCI license and tell me how you do against him. Let us know how that works out.
    Every Pro athlete in the world is a badass. That just allows you into the game. People that run 3 hour marathons have abilities, but there are many of them, as well as 2:46 guys.

    Why would I go against a guy who's getting his strength out of a bottle. Even if you come in last place you beat the guys who are disqualified for doping...except in pro wrestling, bodybuilding, cycling.

    Then again I could always go against you.

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    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    doubt you could hold my wheel.

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    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    I dope...haha...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    Every Pro athlete in the world is a badass. That just allows you into the game. People that run 3 hour marathons have abilities, but there are many of them, as well as 2:46 guys.

    Why would I go against a guy who's getting his strength out of a bottle. Even if you come in last place you beat the guys who are disqualified for doping...except in pro wrestling, bodybuilding, cycling.

    Then again I could always go against you.
    Quick review of your 83 posts. About 80 of them are doping rants, and an equal number are obnoxious, or insulting.

    Lighten up, perhaps go ride.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  5. #30
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    I think he's obsessed. I google his name like he kindly suggested in another post..found he's posting on about 3 other forums about the same crap. Can't get enough here...so take it where ever...

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Quick review of your 83 posts. About 80 of them are doping rants, and an equal number are obnoxious, or insulting.

    Lighten up, perhaps go ride.
    Lighten up Francis!

    Are you an LA fan also?

    Do you think Pharmstrong is an insult? He really has earned it. I wonder if he knew all of the guys on his team were doping?

    He had no idea whether his friend Livingston who he introduced to Ferrari, was doping. Pretty funny. Guys HCT goes from 41 to almost 50 in less than 6 months.

    I'm sorry you find the truth obnoxious. It's not my fault that Pro Cycling is on par with the WWE.

    I'm saddened that cycling is such a pathetic spectacle.

    What's sad is that most of the people I know that can ride are disgusted with LA. Former pros and CAT 1's who really know what the deal is, and either didn't make it into the big leagues or were forced out because they wouldn't turn themselves into lab rats, cycling cyborgs. Then the ones that stay in the industry have to kiss up, otherwise they are haters, when in fact they know the real deal.

    That's one reason I post a lot on this subject.

    I like to believe what I see but with the sport the way it is, I can't. Very sad.

    It's sad that telling the truth ruffles feathers. Even LeMond, a legend in the sport, has his motives questioned by a tyrant, that wouldn't be able to carry his jockstrap.

    Later fellas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    doubt you could hold my wheel.
    Maybe, maybe not. What's your FTP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    [/B]
    so am I.
    You're an atheist.

    This just gets better and better. You used amen before. That's what you say after a prayer.

    Pretty funny that you don't believe in science or religion.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    You're an atheist.

    This just gets better and better. You used amen before. That's what you say after a prayer.

    Pretty funny that you don't believe in science or religion.
    You got me! Your debating skills are far superior to mine. You must be a lawyer because you caught me in a complete contradiction of myself. I'm going to go and pray and hope to be set straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Lighten up, perhaps go ride.
    Guys like this don't actually ride. It gets in the way of their charming personalities.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    I think he's obsessed. I google his name like he kindly suggested in another post..found he's posting on about 3 other forums about the same crap. Can't get enough here...so take it where ever...
    Check the last one here.

    Reid, we're proud as can be to have you here.
    The search for inner peace continues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    the only place I could find this info was on wikipedia and they don't give citations for it.



    Crap? It's the truth. My angle is that I'm exposing LA for the fraud he is. Why do you care? The truth is all that matters here or in any other regard.

    here's a video of the 89 National Championship triathlon...they also mention he placed 4th as a 16 year old. Did they create these videos too? is it part of the conspiracy?


    http://www.familyfitnessweekend.com/?q=node/35/play

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    ^^^^ Shhhh... the black helicopters are circling your house...can you hear them? You can't because they operate silently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    here's a video of the 89 National Championship triathlon...they also mention he placed 4th as a 16 year old. Did they create these videos too? is it part of the conspiracy?


    http://www.familyfitnessweekend.com/?q=node/35/play
    Thanks for the clip.

    I thought you were mistaken, I was wrong obviously.

    Then you go too far though. All that I said was that I couldn't find any other references than wikipedia.

    I knew Pharmstrong had paid the UCI 500k but it was another poster that brought that up. It's no secret that the UCI, at least at that time, was a corrupt organization.

    Jeez, a sprint triathlon. In that video it looks like a NYRRC race in Central Park. 52:39, that's even shorter than Olympic distance which I think has a 10k run. I don't follow triathlon except casually. So a sprint is what, a 750m swim, 20km bike and 5k run? Was that the distance 20 years ago? Obviously, no matter how you break down the splits that's very fast, but guys who are winning the local 5 k's in the 15 minute area are very fast too. There are a lot of these people.

    Do you know how fast a 4 minute mile is? Incredibly fast, maybe 1 in a million fast, but literally hundreds if not over a thousand people have done it, who actually knows how many people have run this incredibly fast? It's done by college athletes quite often and hardly anyone knows the names of these people.

    So do you want to say that Armstrong's sprint triathlon championships are on the same level as a 4 minute mile? I wouldn't.

    No one is saying it's not impressive, but it's not the indicator of potential athletic immortality that you believe it to be. Jim Ryan was running insanely fast miles in HS or even Alan Webb for that matter, and hardly anyone outside of T&F fans knows who those guys are. Sure Ryan was famous for a short time, but no one talks about him now except people who follow politics very closely. Pharmstrong will be remembered by cycling fans many years from now and he doesn't deserve to be.

    This achievement of Armstrong's is on par with making it to MLB. Very impressive, but there are probably 700 guys each year on MLB rosters. Moonlight Graham and Crash Davis made it and no one is saying they're athletic legends.

    You're giving entirely too much weight to "sprint triathlon." I wonder who won sprint triathlon National championships from '91 to '95?

    All sprint triathlon means is that the guy has talent. So do hundreds if not thousands of people every year.

    I'd venture to guess that just about every male runner in a 5k competing in college is running faster than, 16:30, I'm even talking on the community college level. That's decent speed for any normal person, but as for being the best, it's laughably slow. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of college athletes competing in college running, cross country or track who easily have this kind of talent.

    If you're impressed by this kind of thing, the only thing you're accomplishing is showing how good you are.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-21-09 at 10:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    Thanks for the clip.

    I thought you were mistaken, I was wrong obviously.

    Then you go too far though. All that I said was that I couldn't find any other references than wikipedia.

    I knew Pharmstrong had paid the UCI 500k but it was another poster that brought that up. It's no secret that the UCI, at least at that time, was a corrupt organization.

    Jeez, a sprint triathlon. In that video it looks like a NYRRC race in Central Park. 52:39, that's even shorter than Olympic distance which I think has a 10k run. I don't follow triathlon except casually. So a sprint is what, a 750m swim, 20km bike and 5k run? Was that the distance 20 years ago? Obviously, no matter how you break down the splits that's very fast, but guys who are winning the local 5 k's in the 15 minute area are very fast too. There are a lot of these people.

    Do you know how fast a 4 minute mile is? Incredibly fast, maybe 1 in a million fast, but literally hundreds if not over a thousand people have done it, who actually knows how many people have run this incredibly fast? It's done by college athletes quite often and hardly anyone knows the names of these people.

    So do you want to say that Armstrong's sprint triathlon championships are on the same level as a 4 minute mile? I wouldn't.

    No one is saying it's not impressive, but it's not the indicator of potential athletic immortality that you believe it to be. Jim Ryan was running insanely fast miles in HS or even Alan Webb for that matter, and hardly anyone outside of T&F fans knows who those guys are. Sure Ryan was famous for a short time, but no one talks about him now except people who follow politics very closely. Pharmstrong will be remembered by cycling fans many years from now and he doesn't deserve to be.

    This achievement of Armstrong's is on par with making it to MLB. Very impressive, but there are probably 700 guys each year on MLB rosters. Moonlight Graham and Crash Davis made it and no one is saying they're athletic legends.

    You're giving entirely too much weight to "sprint triathlon." I wonder who won sprint triathlon National championships from '91 to '95?

    All sprint triathlon means is that the guy has talent. So do hundreds if not thousands of people every year.

    I'd venture to guess that just about every male runner in a 5k competing in college is running faster than, 16:30, I'm even talking on the community college level. That's decent speed for any normal person, but as for being the best, it's laughably slow. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of college athletes competing in college running, cross country or track who easily have this kind of talent.

    If you're impressed by this kind of thing, the only thing you're accomplishing is showing how good you are.
    Yeah I'm impressed by 2 National Championships before the age of 20 and a 4th place finish at 16 as well as a 2nd place at the IronKids Tri National Championship at 14....You can resort to personal attacks like "showing how good you are" but it is the first defense of someone that doesn't have anything better to say than an insult. I am impressed by National Championships and I'd be willing to bet 99.99% of this board would be too in comparison to their own talent. Everyone on here would happily take 2 National Championships before the age of 20...there is no denying he is a gifted athlete. You can minimize the sprint triatholon all you want but I'd like to see you get out there and win 2 NATIONAL championships.
    Last edited by chrisvu05; 04-21-09 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    Yeah I'm impressed by 3 National Championships before the age of 20 and a 4th place finish at 16 as well as a IronKids Tri National Championship at 14.....
    Of course it's impressive. But that doesn't mean it translates into being an indicator of who is going to be one of the top 10 endurance athletes ever. Sorry but that's a fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    You can resort to personal attacks like "showing how good you are" but it is the first defense of someone that doesn't have anything better to say than an insult.
    It wasn't intended as an insult. It was intended to show your point of reference. Anybody who rides professionally is an amazing cyclist. No professional cyclists are going to be overly impressed with LA's results in a competition that wasn't all that competitive on an elite level anyway. You know who's going to be impressed? Someone who can't break 20 minutes in a 5k.

    Tommy Armour III is an amazing golfer but if I started gushing over him, he'd realize correctly, that it's because I suck, which is true. Sure I can hit some good shots, maybe even some like a pro would hit, but I doubt I could break 100 on a US Open course. I suck in comparison to Tommy Armour III and on another level Tommy Armour III is mediocre in comparison to Tiger Woods. Not an insult, just the way it is.

    Do you realize how ridiculous a 14:30 to 15 minute 5k runner would look in any Olympic 5,000 race? If you're running under 15 minutes for a 5k that's a pretty fast time, but as for world class, it sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    I am impressed by National Championships and I'd be willing to bet 99.99% of this board would be too in comparison to their own talent. Everyone on here would happily take 3 National Championships before the age of 20...there is no denying he is a gifted athlete.
    Jeez Louise, you are sensitive. You ever watch a MLB and the announcer talks about how a catcher like Piazza or Gary Carter is weak defensively or has a weak arm? You ever see the way these guys ***** the ball? I was watching the pre game and Carter was throwing down to second and my friend laughed and said Carter has the weakest arm in the majors. He was frigging firing the ball. Sucked for MLB though. In MLB an 85mph fastball would be in like the bottom 5%, and these guys can throw that hard for 9 innings easily. IF I threw it once with a running start as hard as I could I couldn't throw 85mph, and then my shoulder would be killing me for 3 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    You can minimize the sprint triatholon all you want but I'd like to see you get out there and win 3 NATIONAL championships.
    Lance Armstrong is an elite athlete, and it doesn't matter what I can or cannot do. I will say this, I have enough experience to know what it is to be on that level, and that once you get there, there are further distinctions. Also once you get to that level, it doesn't make you any more special as a person. It's kind of funny to hear all of these people on here get rhapsodic about elite athletes. It's not any big deal really. There are just some people who can lace on a pair of running shoes and go under 4:40 for a mile in the 8th grade with no training. If you can't understand that it betrays your lack of experience. Other than being crazy fast, it doesn't mean a whole lot or change your life all that much, unless you get some kind of monetary or academic reward. But being an end in itself? It's kind of like being a great singer. It's a GOD given talent that can be refined. I can't sing, can you? There are also people who know the parameters, and are good judges of talent. In many fields they are called scouts. Yes, Armstrong had talent, a scout would tell you that. Was he Michael Jordan, ahhh no, not by any stretch of the imagination. And don't come back and tell me Jordan couldn't make his Varsity team as a sophomore. They used to get bigger crowds for the JV than the Varsity because of Jordan. He just had a good coach who wanted him to dominate rather than get stuffed a few times on the varsity. Kinda like bringing Ray Leonard or Oscar de la Hoya along slowly. You don't want them to fight an old pro with a lot of experience and tricks who might duff them up.

    Armstrong's real talent was borne out in his first 4 years as a pro. Very good one day racer, not good in the Grand Tours.

    Look at what Phil Anderson said about Armstrong, the same thing as I'm saying, and Anderson rode with some of the legends. Hinault, Fignon, LeMond. You don't think Phil Anderson is a good judge of talent? Armstrong isn't even as good a climber Hampsten, and 2 years after winning on Alpe d' huez, Hampsten was an average climber compared to the rest of the peloton. That was '94, Hampsten was 32, his numbers were the same, and yet he couldn't keep up with guys who he beat by literally a mile two years before. That was also they year Geweiss dominated and who was the medical guy for them, answer Michele Ferrari.

    Even to be a pro puts you on a very high level. LA was a good pro. Not a great pro. Not an all time great. Then he started heavily manipulating his blood and hormones in '95 into '96. Those are the facts and if you need to believe in his greatness and not scrutinize the facts, what can I do?

    What he's gone on to do with the omerta and ruining people who have exposed him is shameful though.

    I posted what Stephanie McIlvaine said. If you disagree we're just different people.

    Just an addition for people who get insulted by a plain statement of the facts. My friend told me he could run 3 miles in 18 minutes. I had run with him on more than a few occasions and knew that he couldn't do it and flat out told him so. He got all insulted. We used to go to the gym too and he didn't have much problem benching 225 for 10 reps. I told him I was going to go in the gym and bench 225, 10 times and he laughed. He knew my capacities at that point and he knew I'd have to be working out like a maniac (which I wasn't) to even approach that. He got the message and insults have absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-21-09 at 12:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    Of course it's impressive. But that doesn't mean it translates into being an indicator of who is going to be one of the top 10 endurance athletes ever. Sorry but that's a fact.




    It wasn't intended as an insult. It was intended to show your point of reference. Anybody who rides professionally is an amazing cyclist. No professional cyclists are going to be overly impressed with LA's results in a competition that wasn't all that competitive on an elite level anyway. You know who's going to be impressed? Someone who can't break 20 minutes in a 5k.

    Tommy Armour III is an amazing golfer but if I started gushing over him, he'd realize correctly, that it's because I suck, which is true. Sure I can hit some good shots, maybe even some like a pro would hit, but I doubt I could break 100 on a US Open course. I suck in comparison to Tommy Armour III and on another level Tommy Armour III is mediocre in comparison to Tiger Woods. Not an insult, just the way it is.

    Do you realize how ridiculous a 14:30 to 15 minute 5k runner would look in any Olympic 5,000 race? If you're running under 15 minutes for a 5k that's a pretty fast time, but as for world class, it sucks.



    Jeez Louise, you are sensitive. You ever watch a MLB and the announcer talks about how a catcher like Piazza or Gary Carter is weak defensively or has a weak arm? You ever see the way these guys ***** the ball? I was watching the pre game and Carter was throwing down to second and my friend laughed and said Carter has the weakest arm in the majors. He was frigging firing the ball. Sucked for MLB though. In MLB an 85mph fastball would be in like the bottom 5%, and these guys can throw that hard for 9 innings easily. IF I threw it once with a running start as hard as I could I couldn't throw 85mph, and then my shoulder would be killing me for 3 days.



    Lance Armstrong is an elite athlete, and it doesn't matter what I can or cannot do. I will say this, I have enough experience to know what it is to be on that level, and that once you get there, there are further distinctions. Also once you get to that level, it doesn't make you any more special as a person. It's kind of funny to hear all of these people on here get rhapsodic about elite athletes. It's not any big deal really. There are just some people who can lace on a pair of running shoes and go under 4:40 for a mile in the 8th grade with no training. If you can't understand that it betrays your lack of experience. Other than being crazy fast, it doesn't mean a whole lot or change your life all that much, unless you get some kind of monetary or academic reward. But being an end in itself? It's kind of like being a great singer. It's a GOD given talent that can be refined. I can't sing, can you? There are also people who know the parameters, and are good judges of talent. In many fields they are called scouts. Yes, Armstrong had talent, a scout would tell you that. Was he Michael Jordan, ahhh no, not by any stretch of the imagination. And don't come back and tell me Jordan couldn't make his Varsity team as a sophomore. They used to get bigger crowds for the JV than the Varsity because of Jordan. He just had a good coach who wanted him to dominate rather than get stuffed a few times on the varsity. Kinda like bringing Ray Leonard or Oscar de la Hoya along slowly. You don't want them to fight an old pro with a lot of experience and tricks who might duff them up.

    Armstrong's real talent was borne out in his first 4 years as a pro. Very good one day racer, not good in the Grand Tours.

    Look at what Phil Anderson said about Armstrong, the same thing as I'm saying, and Anderson rode with some of the legends. Hinault, Fignon, LeMond. You don't think Phil Anderson is a good judge of talent? Armstrong isn't even as good a climber Hampsten, and 2 years after winning on Alpe d' huez, Hampsten was an average climber compared to the rest of the peloton. That was '94, Hampsten was 32, his numbers were the same, and yet he couldn't keep up with guys who he beat by literally a mile two years before. That was also they year Geweiss dominated and who was the medical guy for them, answer Michele Ferrari.

    Even to be a pro puts you on a very high level. LA was a good pro. Not a great pro. Not an all time great. Then he started heavily manipulating his blood and hormones in '95 into '96. Those are the facts and if you need to believe in his greatness and not scrutinize the facts, what can I do?

    What he's gone on to do with the omerta and ruining people who have exposed him is shameful though.

    I posted what Stephanie McIlvaine said. If you disagree we're just different people.

    Just an addition for people who get insulted by a plain statement of the facts. My friend told me he could run 3 miles in 18 minutes. I had run with him on more than a few occasions and knew that he couldn't do it and flat out told him so. He got all insulted. We used to go to the gym too and he didn't have much problem benching 225 for 10 reps. I told him I was going to go in the gym and bench 225, 10 times and he laughed. He knew my capacities at that point and he knew I'd have to be working out like a maniac (which I wasn't) to even approach that. He got the message and insults have absolutely nothing to do with it.
    If they were FACTS he would not be racing today....until he is kicked out of cycling for DOPING every single random belief that you have stated as FACT is just hearsay. Innocent until Proven Guilty remember? I'm not sticking up for Lance as a fan boy as you have implied....in fact I think he has doped along with the rest of the professional peloton. But I simply believe that what separates him from everyone else in the doped peloton is his athletic ability (if everyone is doping then the winner is still the strongest/smartest racer).

    Go read A Dog In a Hat and come back and tell me that everyone in the pro peloton at some point has not doped.

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    Chris,

    You just made a series of well thought-out, logical statements. Our boy Reid won't have any of that. Really, no need to bother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    If they were FACTS he would not be racing today....until he is kicked out of cycling for DOPING every single random belief that you have stated as FACT is just hearsay. Innocent until Proven Guilty remember?
    Innocent until proven guilty is in a court of law. If you know anything about the law, there is more than enough evidence for Lance to be convicted. Especially with this hearsay word you lightly throw around. You probably have no idea how many exceptions there are to the hearsay rule. Lance is very lucky that the standard is a positive drug test, and not the rule of law. Marion Jones, Ullrich, Pantani, Andreu, none of these people tested positive, and do you think that all the guys from Postal only started doping after they left Postal?

    What I don't understand is then you go on to admit that Lance doped. You know, this is a lot more complicated than just injecting some r EPO or popping a couple of greenies every once in a while. Why do you think Lance paid tens of thousands of dollars to a person like Ferrari? It then becomes a question of who has the best doctor. Lance paid him a lot of money and part of the deal was that Ferrari couldn't work with other tour contenders.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    I'm not sticking up for Lance as a fan boy as you have implied.....
    which makes your defense of LA more cynical than if you didn't know any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    in fact I think he has doped along with the rest of the professional peloton. But I simply believe that what separates him from everyone else in the doped peloton is his athletic ability (if everyone is doping then the winner is still the strongest/smartest racer).
    Your logic doesn't hold here because some people respond better to the drugs than others. In the same way, some people with similiar cancers respond to the drugs and survive while others aren't helped and die.

    Your points about everyone doing it aren't true either and anyone who says that is committing fraud. Charley Mottey and Christophe Bassons are notable exceptions and Bassons' had higher capacities than Pharmstrong. People like Bassons and Simeoni have gotten driven out of the ranks for opening their mouths.



    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    Go read A Dog In a Hat and come back and tell me that everyone in the pro peloton at some point has not doped.
    Here's some stuff from an interview with the author. I don't know how you deduced from this book that "everyone" was doping?

    http://velocitynation.com/content/in...rkin-interview



    Parkin Correct. Absolutely. And it really has changed the way that the...even if you compare the way the riders look now, compared to the way we looked in the '80's and before...back then the legs were bigger, and the guys looked more muscular. And now, the riders are looking more overall athletic, but yet smaller. The oxygen uptake is so much greater on those drugs that they can turn the pedals over faster. Back in the day...I always thought it was funny when you look at a rider like Jan Ullrich climb, compared to everyone else it looked like he was pedaling so slowly, and yet if you look at the way they pedaled in the Merckx era, the '80's...you look at Greg Lemond climb, he pedals slower than Ullrich ever did. So, it has changed the way races are written. Even the guys that don't or didn't partake of the EPO type drugs, they all had to learn how to pedal faster and to ride differently, so...


    schmalz Yeah they had to match the style in order to be competitve.

    Parkin Exactly.

    schmalz I think that you were teammates with Lemond, but you didn't spend a lot of time with him, you were on ADR together correct?

    Parkin We were kind of on different squads. ADR had...in a way it was kind of cheating...it was one big team, but they split the team in two and they gave the second team a different sponsor. Instead of eight or ten riders in a race we would go to the starting line with sixteen or twenty, and we would ride as a team.

    schmalz I think that Greg Lemond feels that once people started taking EPO, that they sort of, um, ended his career, or that he wasn't able to compete because he wasn't willing to take it. From what I've heard him say about it, I've never talked to him about it. I think he feels that suddenly everybody, guys that he was beating the year before, was dropping him on climbs, where he was basically doing the same training he was doing before, and I think he's still a little ticked off about that.

    Parkin There were a lot of riders during that period of time who suddenly were not competitive and felt slighted, trying to remember, there was a french rider, I can't remember his name right now, who started whistle blowing a lot. There were a lot of guys...before EPO, nobody was talking about the drug. Everybody was talking about it, but nobody was saying anything and nobody was pointing any fingers. Then EPO came around, and everybody started pointing fingers. And I can't speak to...I was never the rider who would've...I honestly never would've never known the difference if I was riding with somebody who wasn't on EPO last year and then they were on EPO this year. When you're riding on the flats, riding the kind of races that I did and did well in, or in the rolls, in the hilly races that I did, I was never in the front to be, to get dropped, and if I did get dropped, I would've been on a category 1 or 2 climb, it wouldn't have been totally surprising. I never got that first hand experience that all of a sudden that guys were going so much faster. And I think also they didn't perfect the EPO technology, it didn't become an epidemic until I was already gone from Europe.
    This high cadence stuff he mentions is very interesting, I must say. Also his talk of how the physique's have changed.

    BTW, who was the chief proponent of high cadence?

    It seems obvious that you can do a lot more with a higher octane fuel and a 3 litre engine like a formula 1, as opposed to a muscle car with a carburator and leaded 87 octane garbage.

    Thanks for the heads up on the book. It only reinforces my contentions.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-21-09 at 02:04 PM.

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    ^
    So is it your contention that Armstrong used EPO, and/or other PED's to beat his principle rivals, such as Ullrich, Basso, Pantani, Hamilton, Mayo, et al, who were not using PED's.

    If that is in fact your contention, then you're more naive than any "Armstrong fan boy".
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

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    I like high cadences when climbing. Being doped to the gills on EPO has really helped my abilities. I highly recommend it. Sure, my blood is the consistency of pull-taffy, but you hardly even notice anything below a 10% grade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post

    Parkin Correct. Absolutely. And it really has changed the way that the...even if you compare the way the riders look now, compared to the way we looked in the '80's and before...back then the legs were bigger, and the guys looked more muscular...
    Yet, I think the physiological differences are far more stark between the LeMond era and what preceded than between LeMond and what came after. Look at GC riders like Anquetil, Coppi, Merckx. Their quads are svelte compared to LeMond, Hinault, Fignon and others of their period.



    (plus Hinault's head is enormous!).

    Were steroids being abused more in the eighties?

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    The photo didn't copy in as I intended... it is here:

    http://members.tripod.com/~CyclingAr...ix/fr00026.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    ^
    So is it your contention that Armstrong used EPO, and/or other PED's to beat his principle rivals, such as Ullrich, Basso, Pantani, Hamilton, Mayo, et al, who were not using PED's."
    You're joking, right? Where do you people come up with this stuff? I love when people are intentionally obtuse. You've read some of my posts so it's pretty clear I'm up on who was outright caught or implicated in doping scandals and it's clear all those guys you listed were.

    I wrote a bunch of stuff and it was pretty clear. You wrote a sentence so I'll try to figure what you're getting at. For some reason you're defending Pharmstrong and it's apparent you're a fan of cycling. I'm not, at least in its current state because the sport has turned into Pro wrestling and Bodybuilding combined. Who wants to be a fan of a freak show?

    So, are you saying that if Pharmstrong couldn't beat the dopers, he had to join them? Since when is winning a bike race the be all end all?

    A bunch of people seem to be a fan of this book, A Dog in a Hat. I did read the author's interview on NYVelocity and one of the other things that struck me was when he was questioned about moral dilemmas. This is what was said;
    Parkin Yep. It was Flèche Brabançonne or Brabantse Pijl, they handed me some stuff, you're right, I had to make up mind whether I was going to do it or not. I was not a doping virgin at that point, but it was something I didn't want to do. It was a moral and ethical dilemma, whether I should do that or not. I'm glad that I kept it as clean as I did...

    schmalz

    You had a great line in the book, you said you could tell your parents you had a bad day and look them in the eye, or you could stare at their feet while they congratulated you. I think that sums it up pretty well.

    Parkin Yeah.
    Seem like the people on this thread who read the book, didn't get Parkin's take on the moral aspects of doping correct.



    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    If that is in fact your contention, then you're more naive than any "Armstrong fan boy".
    Good Lord, you know, I may not be the best writer in the world, but if that's what you think I was getting at, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I think you're slanting what I wrote based on your own prejudices that pro cycling, or winning bike races at all costs, is somehow important.

    Would you trade places with any of these guys. If you're 49 years old one would think you've learned something in this life and one of those lessons is that the grass isn't always greener. Would you trade places with Pharmstrong?

    The guy obviously has some major problems in life, he was married, his wife went thru in vitro to have those kids, she's a "stud wife" according to LA, and he's cheating on her.

    He was going thru a flavor of the month, he's not well liked by anyone in the sport because of his reign of terror, and keeping the omerta, and most people think he's a jerk.

    Ullrich?

    The guy is so disgraced in Germany they won't even show the tour on TV.

    Pantani?

    Well, where Hamilton is at right now, he might want to change places with Pantani.

    Hamilton?

    Mayo?

    you know, idolatry is kids stuff, middle aged men shouldn't engage in hero worship.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-21-09 at 08:26 PM.

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