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Thread: Watts/kg @ FTP

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    Watts/kg @ FTP

    How come Pharmstrong needed an FTP of 6.7 watts per kg to win the tour, but now it's estimated that you only need 5.7 to 6 watts per kg to contend?

    What's Pharmstrong's watts/kg @ FTP these days? Why is that number not publicized. Floyd always posted his power numbers..

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    Pharmstrong!

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Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, 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  5. #5
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    I guess I won this argument also.

  6. #6
    Legs of Steel chrisvu05's Avatar
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    I suppose you believe he was doping as a teenager winning Triathlon National Championships? You're entitled to your beliefs....

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    I suppose you believe he was doping as a teenager winning Triathlon National Championships? You're entitled to your beliefs....
    Did he win any national championships in triathlon as a teen? Did he win even one?

    When he hooked up with Carmichael as a junior cyclist I'm pretty sure he was doping as Carmichael used corticoids with some other juniors. You realize he was sued by a couple of guys on the junior national team?

    Do you know his background at all? I mean contrary to the rosy picture he painted in his hagiographies.

    The Armstrongs will do just about anything to get ahead. What, has his Mom been married like 5 times?

    Why don't you read the Ashenden link and educate yourself. Read From Lance to Landis.

    Have you seen Hamilton's doping schedules? These guys are into some crazy heavy drug use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    I suppose you believe he was doping as a teenager winning Triathlon National Championships? You're entitled to your beliefs....

    Back to the original question on the thread. Why isn't LA's magic number 6.7 anymore? You are aware that Allan Lim said 6.7 was physiologically impossible? That is without doping of course.

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Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,

  10. #10
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Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, 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Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
    Last edited by garysol1; 05-04-09 at 10:44 AM.

  11. #11
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    ^^ Damn dude, that takes work.

  12. #12
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Just type once, highlight and hold ctrl-V.

    I've decided this should be the only response than Reid gets. It's somehow more infantile, yet more meaningful at the same time.

  13. #13
    my brain hurts! fosmith's Avatar
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    Amen brotha.

  14. #14
    Legs of Steel chrisvu05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    Did he win any national championships in triathlon as a teen? Did he win even one?

    When he hooked up with Carmichael as a junior cyclist I'm pretty sure he was doping as Carmichael used corticoids with some other juniors. You realize he was sued by a couple of guys on the junior national team?

    Do you know his background at all? I mean contrary to the rosy picture he painted in his hagiographies.

    The Armstrongs will do just about anything to get ahead. What, has his Mom been married like 5 times?

    Why don't you read the Ashenden link and educate yourself. Read From Lance to Landis.

    Have you seen Hamilton's doping schedules? These guys are into some crazy heavy drug use.
    he was the texas state time trial champion at 16...he won national sprint tri championships in 89 and 90....he was 18 and 19....then he won the National RR championship at age 20.

    I understand you are entitled to your beliefs but I did a quick search and you are all over the internet posting crap about Armstrong? What is your angle? Why do you insist on wasting so much of your time on this issue? I don't go around posting everywhere that OJ was the murderer.....why do you do this?

    Personally I don't give a crap if he doped...everyone (who was worthwhile) he beat was doping. He has inspired a generation of cyclists. He has inspired many generations of cancer survivors. He is a damn good cyclist and no matter what anyone says they can't take that away from him. He surrounded himself with good teammates, good coaching, and great strategy.
    Last edited by chrisvu05; 04-20-09 at 10:50 AM.

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    Legs of Steel chrisvu05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    Back to the original question on the thread. Why isn't LA's magic number 6.7 anymore? You are aware that Allan Lim said 6.7 was physiologically impossible? That is without doping of course.
    Answer 1: He doesn't have to have a 6.7 anymore because the guys he would be beating these days don't have the talent or the doping to get them that high. (Ullrich, Basso, Vino, etc all dopers he beat).

    Why is Allan Lim the end all be all of what is physiologically impossible? He's a smart man no doubt but there always is someone that comes along in every generation that breaks what was once thought to be unbreakable.

    Look at Usain Bolt's 100 yd dash, look at Phelps....look at Steve Prefontaine...

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    2 words. Bob Beamon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    2 words. Bob Beamon
    Beamon jumped 29' feet once. He never jumped 28'. Ever.

    Guys hit 550 foot homeruns once every 10 years. Your arguments are very poor. Ali hits Liston so fast people couldn't even believe their eyes.

    It's a lot different than changing ones phyiological parameters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    '
    Your arguments are very poor. Ali hits Liston so fast people couldn't even believe their eyes.
    Clay hit Liston and did a great job of it. Liston took a dive against Ali.

    I'm not arguing with you, I'm mocking you. You're just not smart enough to know the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    Answer 1: He doesn't have to have a 6.7 anymore because the guys he would be beating these days don't have the talent or the doping to get them that high. (Ullrich, Basso, Vino, etc all dopers he beat).

    Why is Allan Lim the end all be all of what is physiologically impossible? He's a smart man no doubt but there always is someone that comes along in every generation that breaks what was once thought to be unbreakable.

    Look at Usain Bolt's 100 yd dash, look at Phelps....look at Steve Prefontaine...
    Nice creative answer. You'll make up anything to hang onto your myth. The fact is that it's physiologically impossible to create 6.7 watts per kg with a VO2 max of 81, and that was Armstrong at his absolute best back in 1993 pre epo.

    Allan Lim is not the only one who says this, but he's one of the more prominent physiologist's in cycling. It's funny and somewhat dismaying that you can dismiss all the evidence because of your faith in LA. Allan Lim is a smart man re human capacities, but you're smarter in this regard.

    Your last sentence points to your ignorance of the subject.

    Usain Bolt, maybe, he's 6'5" tall and there have not been that many tall 100 guys who can get out of the blocks like he can but there are questions as Jamaicans are rarely confronted with OOC's.

    Phelps, well, we know he likes recreational drugs, plus he has an HGH face. The jury is definitely out on these two.

    Steve Prefontaine takes the cake though. Why would you put him in there? Great runner but well within a normal range of performances. It seems you buy into mythology, and all this hagiography about people's toughness and this crap. Prefontaine came in fourth in the Olympics. Sure he was a great college runner, and badass, but his VO2 was 84 (exceptional and higher than Pharmstrong's) which is still within normal parameters.

    Ferrari was the one who said that you need to generate 6.7 watts per kg to be competitive in the tour. That was apparently true from '99 to '05 but no longer. Now it's more than 10% lower? This is very funny how you can buy into nonsense.

    Why don't you broaden your horizons and read some of the Walsh stuff or the Pantani book rather than argue where you just make stuff up.

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    *yawn*

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    he was the texas state time trial champion at 16...he won national sprint tri championships in 89 and 90....he was 18 and 19....then he won the National RR championship at age 20. .
    the only place I could find this info was on wikipedia and they don't give citations for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    I understand you are entitled to your beliefs but I did a quick search and you are all over the internet posting crap about Armstrong? What is your angle?
    Crap? It's the truth. My angle is that I'm exposing LA for the fraud he is. Why do you care? The truth is all that matters here or in any other regard.


    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    Why do you insist on wasting so much of your time on this issue?
    What interest do you have in idolatry?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    I don't go around posting everywhere that OJ was the murderer.....why do you do this?
    The people who insist OJ was innocent have very similiar arguments to the Pharmstrong defenders. That is, they confuse the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    Personally I don't give a crap if he doped
    Then why are you going thru such efforts to defend him.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    ...everyone (who was worthwhile) he beat was doping.
    So it's ok if he doped, and then tries to ruin anyone and everyone who tries to expose him?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    He has inspired a generation of cyclists.
    Actually, he hasn't. Didn't you read the other thread about the Armstrong effect. A lot of the pros wish he would go away. The cyclists he has inspired believe his press releases and fraud. He's also misled a lot of cyclists with all his bs about high cadences and this other nonsense about how he trains so much harder than everyone else. Guess what, this high cadence stuff is a red herring.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    He has inspired many generations of cancer survivors..
    Oh boy, the halo effect Pharmstrong is hiding behind. Here's what Stephanie McIlvain had to say about that in a tape recorded conversation with LeMond.

    "and the part that pisses me off about the whole thing, even if we were close right now, it's how many people he has given false hope to, and I think that is the most disgusting thing ever for someone to do....From somebody who has a child with a handicap, you look up to people who've gone through the same thing, and you look for hope and you look for strength and for him to be doing that to those poor people who look up to him and honestly think that he's doing this' cause he's a superman and..."

    Stephanie McIlvaine was Pharmstrong's Oakley rep and former good friend who was in the hospital room when LA went down the list of PED's he had been taking.




    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    He is a damn good cyclist and no matter what anyone says they can't take that away from him.
    Wow, your emotional investment in the myth is really coming through.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvu05 View Post
    He surrounded himself with good teammates, good coaching, and great strategy.
    Teammates? The list of dopers on that team is Heras, Hamilton, Livingston,Andreu, Beltran, Landis, Vaughters. Ekimov? That guy came from the Soviet system, do you think he was doping? Then he retires and the Hog hires Basso for Discovery after consulting Pharmstrong. Who have I missed here? Jeez, all of a sudden Hincapie is a climber.... I'm sure there were other confirmed dopers there, can't think of them off the top of my head.

    Coaches? Ferrari, Mr. EPO is no more dangerous than OJ if used correctly, and Carmichael, to a much lesser extent who was injecting juniors with cortisone. Then of course there is the Hog.

    Strategy? otherwise known as being the best cheat. Who ever thought that to be a world class athlete required a doctor with an expertise in blood physiology, and pharmacology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    *yawn*
    Do you carry his baggage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fosmith View Post
    Amen brotha.
    BTW, your hero is an atheist.

    You've noted that you're brain hurts. I'm sorry. What we do here is read what posters write. You can engage in other hobbies that might not hurt the brain so much....

    and I'm not talking about Pharmstrong worship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post






    Wow, your emotional investment in the myth is really coming through.


    The myth that when you get right down to it, he's still a badass?

    You should nut up, get your UCI license and tell me how you do against him. Let us know how that works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    BTW, your hero is an atheist.

    You've noted that you're brain hurts. I'm sorry. What we do here is read what posters write. You can engage in other hobbies that might not hurt the brain so much....

    and I'm not talking about Pharmstrong worship.
    so am I.

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