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  1. #1
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    The Doping Forum

    We ought to rename this forum Yet Again. This time call it The Doping Forum cuz that seems to be all anyone talks about here. I can count on the toes of my black rooster foot how many times there's been mention of a recent result this season, unless it was in the context of a doping flame-war.


    Might be why there are 187 viewers on the Mechanics forum, 36 on the Road Racing forum (which isn't even visible from the main page) yet only 3 here. (And those three likely include a wasted messenger or two.)




    Or maybe the mods should make and enforce a ban on doping accusations here, and send them off to some forlorn alley off Foo, where I could ignore them in comfortable disdain. Or would that be disdainful comfort?
    Last edited by DMF; 04-23-09 at 04:09 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    We ought to rename this forum Yet Again. This time call it The Doping Forum cuz that seems to be all anyone talks about here. I can count on the toes of my black rooster foot how many times there's been mention of a recent result this season, unless it was in the context of a doping flame-war.


    Might be why there are 187 viewers on the Mechanics forum, 36 on the Road Racing forum (which isn't even visible from the main page) yet only 3 here. (And those three likely include a wasted messenger or two.)




    Or maybe the mods should make and enforce a ban on doping accusations here, and send them off to some forlorn alley off Foo, where I could ignore them in comfortable disdain. Or would that be disdainful comfort?

    I vote with you! New forum - all doping posts move there (can we make them take RR with them?)

  3. #3
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    We ought to rename this forum Yet Again. This time call it The Doping Forum cuz that seems to be all anyone talks about here. I can count on the toes of my black rooster foot how many times there's been mention of a recent result this season, unless it was in the context of a doping flame-war.


    Might be why there are 187 viewers on the Mechanics forum, 36 on the Road Racing forum (which isn't even visible from the main page) yet only 3 here. (And those three likely include a wasted messenger or two.)




    Or maybe the mods should make and enforce a ban on doping accusations here, and send them off to some forlorn alley off Foo, where I could ignore them in comfortable disdain. Or would that be disdainful comfort?
    You do have a point. However, consider that not that many people are closely following racing right now. I expect that to change in a couple weeks when the Giro starts. At that point, we'll have to be stricter at limiting the doping discussions to what's happened within the event.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  4. #4
    Senior Member adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    We ought to rename this forum Yet Again. This time call it The Doping Forum cuz that seems to be all anyone talks about here. I can count on the toes of my black rooster foot how many times there's been mention of a recent result this season, unless it was in the context of a doping flame-war.


    Might be why there are 187 viewers on the Mechanics forum, 36 on the Road Racing forum (which isn't even visible from the main page) yet only 3 here. (And those three likely include a wasted messenger or two.)




    Or maybe the mods should make and enforce a ban on doping accusations here
    , and send them off to some forlorn alley off Foo, where I could ignore them in comfortable disdain. Or would that be disdainful comfort?
    Ban doping talk in a forum called "Professional Cycling"? Maybe we could rename it "Buried My Head In The Sand".

    As much as I hate the doping that goes on in the pro peloton - it happens and time and time again we watch the races, get excited and the boom - down goes someone for doping. We haven't seen any huge cases yet this year - and I hope none creep up after the Giro or the Tour... but it's a reality of the sport.

  5. #5
    The Improbable Bulk Little Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam View Post
    Ban doping talk in a forum called "Professional Cycling"? Maybe we could rename it "Buried My Head In The Sand".

    As much as I hate the doping that goes on in the pro peloton - it happens and time and time again we watch the races, get excited and the boom - down goes someone for doping. We haven't seen any huge cases yet this year - and I hope none creep up after the Giro or the Tour... but it's a reality of the sport.
    I don't think the issue of banning is serious, but a backlash to the over-exposure because every thread descends into the same pit.

    Frankly, if baseball were to follow the same pattern, or football, or any other sport (and they all dope at least as much) there would never be discussions of sports, but only of doping. Frankly, nobody is sticking their head in the sand, but it is getting boring.

    When someone gets caught, they are out, and then the sport continues without them... why can't we as fans do the same?

    Why do we get mired in the pit of worrying about who might get caught next, or who might have doped when? They are all being tested frequently, and we know that some are getting away with it, but the testers are working on ways to catch more and more of them. Let's concern ourselves with them when they are caught.

    It will probably always be that way, so I think my attitude may reflect others' as well. "Can we discuss cycling here as fans and not theoretical pharmacists?"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Darwin View Post
    I don't think the issue of banning is serious, but a backlash to the over-exposure because every thread descends into the same pit.

    Frankly, if baseball were to follow the same pattern, or football, or any other sport (and they all dope at least as much) there would never be discussions of sports, but only of doping. Frankly, nobody is sticking their head in the sand, but it is getting boring.

    When someone gets caught, they are out, and then the sport continues without them... why can't we as fans do the same?

    Why do we get mired in the pit of worrying about who might get caught next, or who might have doped when? They are all being tested frequently, and we know that some are getting away with it, but the testers are working on ways to catch more and more of them. Let's concern ourselves with them when they are caught.

    It will probably always be that way, so I think my attitude may reflect others' as well. "Can we discuss cycling here as fans and not theoretical pharmacists?"
    Sounds reasonable, but there is a lot more strategy in team sports like football or baseball and doping doesn't have as direct an effect on success or failure.

    Look at A-Rod. The guy still sucks in September and October despite being juiced, and Reggie Jackson will always be Mr. October.

    Look at Gretsky in Hockey. Probably one of the least strong and fit legends in sport of all time.

    Larry Bird, same thing, not incredibly physically gifted except for height and there are a lot of 6'9" guys in basketball.

    Mickey Mantle was hitting home runs hung over. I don't care how many PED's you take with maybe the exception of HGH which helps vision. It's most likely not going to be able to help you hit a baseball, or always be in the right place on a hockey rink, or basketball court.

    In cycling fuel, rest, physiological ability, performance and success are tied incredibly close together. In other sports there are a lot more intangibles.

  7. #7
    King of the Dolomites Simoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid Rothchild View Post
    Sounds reasonable, but there is a lot more strategy in team sports like football or baseball and doping doesn't have as direct an effect on success or failure.
    Um, cycling is a team, sport. And unless you are a recreational low category rider, is incredibly complex. At least at my level. But it appears you wouldn't know anything about that.

    So, you've been outted. I just wish I could recall your old handle. You've been here before. There was a guy who posted nothing but doping crap. Nothing else. He did not participate in any other cycling discussion.

    BTW...for a guy who recently said that football and baseball were joke sports, it's funny how this has changed.

    Go away. Or start a separate doping forum so Reid can talk to himself.

    To the rest...in an era where, in a recent poll kids said it was OK to cheat in school as long as you didn't get caught, there will always be cheating. There will always be PED's in every sport, to some extent.

    Get used to it. I don't like it either, but it will always be there.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    Um, cycling is a team, sport. And unless you are a recreational low category rider, is incredibly complex. At least at my level. But it appears you wouldn't know anything about that..
    That's not what Floyd was always saying. He said the guy who is the strongest always wins. The guy who could go the hardest, the longest, wins. Pretty simple to me.

    I love how you seize on a minor error by me. Think about the TT, the race of truth. The truth here is that the strongest rider is revealed. Unless you're talking about a rider reporting back to his team leader about course conditions, teamwork is a very small part. They even brought in some goofy rules for the TTT in the TdF where whole teams were limited to prescribed time losses depending on their position in the results of the TTT. Then they took the TTT out of the TdF completely because it was giving individual riders with strong teams an outsized advantage. Teamwork, isn't the same in the mountains as on the flats either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    So, you've been outted. I just wish I could recall your old handle. You've been here before...
    Good Lord!

    There is no other handle period. I looked at your personal information, here it is.

    About Simoni
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    "Correcting cyclist's misinformation?

    Another thing, for all of your raving about cycling being a team sport, you do a lot of riding "At the front of the pack." Is this because of your altruistic nature, you're not smart enough to get out of the wind, you're not a team leader, or it gives you an excuse when you're outsprinted?

    Name me one true team sport where a guy has to fight against his own team in order to come out victorious like LeMond did in '86. Or in '85 where the team put their chances at risk by honoring the reigning champion rather than the strongest guy. One for all and all for one, my eye. For goodness sake, friends on other teams were helping him. Just like Pharmstrong on Joux Plane in 2000. Where the heck were his teammates? It was guys from other teams helping him.

    Wow, I better point out my apparent contradiction from earlier in the post about team tactics not mattering in the mountains before you have a seizure. Armstrong was paced up the Joux Plane, it helped him, based on his post race comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    There was a guy who posted nothing but doping crap....
    I'm not him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    Nothing else. He did not participate in any other cycling discussion. ...
    I'm changing that. I just posted on the virtues of the Brooks Professional in the road cycling section. I have very strong legs, very fit, no weight weenie, I can handle the extra 350 grams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    BTW...for a guy who recently said that football and baseball were joke sports, it's funny how this has changed...
    Different guy. I was a Yankee fan back when Mike Kekich and Fritz Peterson, were swapping wives, back when Bobby Murcer was their big upcoming star. I think he had like 33 homers back in '73. You look that up to check on me. You'll enjoy the wife swapping story too. At any rate, I love going to any kind of sporting event. Figure skating, The Dapper Dan Wrestling Classic, whatever. That's why it pains me that Cycling is on par with Bodybuilding and Pro Wrestling which are not sports.

    I was a Giant fan back when Joe Pisarcik was performing "The Miracle in the Meadowlands" for Herman Edwards and the Eagles.

    Anyway, you don't read very carefully as I was discussing the defensive deficiencies of Piazza and the weak throwing arm of Gary Carter here, to illustrate a point to the people who think Pharmstrong is a genetic freak. Maybe compared to them, and you, Pharmstrong is a genetic freak. Compared to me he's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    Go away..
    Nope, not on your say so anyway. I'll leave of my own accord. Keep your pants on, it will be shortly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    Or start a separate doping forum so Reid can talk to himself...
    You're getting your subjects mixed up. I have no control over the structure of the forums here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    To the rest...in an era where, in a recent poll kids said it was OK to cheat in school as long as you didn't get caught, there will always be cheating. There will always be PED's in every sport, to some extent. .
    I prefer the cultures where the elders are looked up to rather than this idiotic youth culture the USA seems to be at the forefront of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simoni View Post
    Get used to it. I don't like it either, but it will always be there.
    Does it look like I'm getting used to it? I'm older than Pharmstrong and I don't look up to him. While I don't condone jackasses running next to him carrying giant hypodermic needles, I won't kiss his ass, either. That heckling is inappropriate whether it's Bonds or Armstrong.

    BTW, Bonds is a far superior athlete than Armstrong. He was a definite Hall of Famer before juicing. Armstrong was a 2 or 3 time all star at best. Maybe I'm wrong about Armstrong but the tragedy of it is we'll never really know, will we.

    Hey, I really am out. I'll be very busy changing the course of things, really. LMAO.
    Last edited by Reid Rothchild; 04-27-09 at 09:30 AM.

  9. #9
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    ^ Have you ever raced a bike? As a lowly Cat4, I can give you multiple examples where our team's tactics resulted in wins or high placings that would not have occurred without team tactics.

    Anyone who claims that cycling at the professional level is not a team sport, is simply revealing their ignorance.
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    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  10. #10
    call me T.J.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    We ought to rename this forum Yet Again. This time call it The Doping Forum cuz that seems to be all anyone talks about here. I can count on the toes of my black rooster foot how many times there's been mention of a recent result this season, unless it was in the context of a doping flame-war.
    Of course, you're doing the same thing.

    If it bothers you, post an on-topic thread. Problem solved.

  11. #11
    King of the Dolomites Simoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    ^ Have you ever raced a bike? As a lowly Cat4, I can give you multiple examples where our team's tactics resulted in wins or high placings that would not have occurred without team tactics.

    Anyone who claims that cycling at the professional level is not a team sport, is simply revealing their ignorance.
    Oh, I think Reid's done a fine job of that in many different ways.

    Good post.

  12. #12
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjwarren View Post
    If it bothers you, post an on-topic thread. Problem solved.


    Look around, I've started several. Do you think the problem is solved now?
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

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