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  1. #26
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowjeep View Post
    The Interview they showed during today's stage Cav said it was easy because he had the best train. He listed his guys by name and said it was easy to win when you have a train like that. Pretty classy in my book.
    Thats the new song he sings. Last year was more about him. Its good that he's becoming more professional.

    He is putting on a good show this year.

    About him being cocky, he has come up when there really isnt any other sprinters. Had it been the Cipo, Steels, Zabel, Mcewen days, he might not be so cocky.

  2. #27
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
    Thats the new song he sings. Last year was more about him. Its good that he's becoming more professional.

    He is putting on a good show this year.

    About him being cocky, he has come up when there really isnt any other sprinters. Had it been the Cipo, Steels, Zabel, Mcewen days, he might not be so cocky.
    the best always make it look like there is no real competition.

    ed rader
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  3. #28
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    the best always make it look like there is no real competition.

    ed rader
    haha, awesome!

  4. #29
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
    haha, awesome!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROxDBpMCffU



    ed rader
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  5. #30
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    the best always make it look like there is no real competition.

    ed rader
    Thats a good sig line, very nice

  6. #31
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    I'm not saying Cav isn't good or even great. I am saying he's racking up great wins against non-great fields.

    Go back to the first half of this decade. You had Cipollini, Petacchi, Zabel, McEwen, Freire...all guys we'll still be talking about 20 years from now.

    Who is Cavendish regularly beating right now that we'll still be talking about 20 years from now? A 37-year old McEwen? Tyler Farrar? please. Boonen? for sure but Cavendish won 4 Tour stages last with Boonen not there. Daniele Bennati? Cavendish won 2 Giro stages against him in 2008 but Bennati won 3. He didn't ride the Tour last year. Boonen never does the Giro. Hushovd? okay, but he's a perennial top 5 also-ran who got it right once in a while like Jalabert.

    I need to see Cavendish win a few more sprints with Boonen, Petacchi, Freire and Bennati all there at the end before I call him one of the all-time greats.

  7. #32
    lead on macduff!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
    Please research Graeme Brown.
    yeah, he's definitely had his moments as has rene haselbacher

  8. #33
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    I see what you did there.
    Pretty funny
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  9. #34
    Rat Bastard mcoomer's Avatar
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    Comparing past vs present day riders is a very difficult proposition, if not impossible. Can you compare Babe Ruth and Ken Griffey, Jr? It's impossible to compare them head to head so it's based purely on opinion and speculation. Fun, but not very objective.
    It's better to burn out than fade away...or slip out of your pedal and face plant on the side of the road!!!

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  10. #35
    MyBikeRunsonNukePower cmschmie's Avatar
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    I didn't want to start a new thread for this question, so I thought this one may be the best.

    How fast, approximately, is Cavendish going ~50m from the finish?
    '09 Specialized Allez Elite
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  11. #36
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    At the finish of the final stage this year he was moving between 42 and 46 with eight seconds to go. My math skills are poor so I don't know how this calculates to meters out from the finish.

    Cipollini and Petacchi used to regularly cross the finish line at the Giro doing 46 mph.

    And this quote from bicycling mag "When it came to sprinting, no sprinter in the history of the sport could rival Cipollini in terms of pure, unadulterated speed."

    My personal opinion is that Cav doesn't yet have that pure top end speed. What is amazing about him is how long he can hold an amazing speed. I wonder what it feels like to be able to ride like him.
    Last edited by Laggard; 08-12-09 at 06:35 PM.
    i may have overreacted

  12. #37
    Senior Member SunSwingsLow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
    Go back to the first half of this decade. You had Cipollini, Petacchi, Zabel, McEwen, Freire...all guys we'll still be talking about 20 years from now.
    He cant control his competition, but he sure does dominate them.

    Hes got 10 TdF wins in 1 1/2 tours. If he stays healthy for 5 more years you will be talking about him as one of the all time greats.
    1999 GT Xizang Ti

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  13. #38
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunSwingsLow View Post
    Hes got 10 TdF wins in 1 1/2 tours. If he stays healthy for 5 more years you will be talking about him as one of the all time greats.
    Agreed. These guys have been show to burn out pretty quickly though. Time will tell.
    i may have overreacted

  14. #39
    Senior Member SunSwingsLow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Agreed. These guys have been show to burn out pretty quickly though. Time will tell.

    Yeah the career window of power is fleeting at times.
    1999 GT Xizang Ti

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  15. #40
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    I read somewhere that sprinters actually have longer shelf lives than GC contenders? Is that true?

  16. #41
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunSwingsLow View Post
    He cant control his competition, but he sure does dominate them.

    Hes got 10 TdF wins in 1 1/2 tours. If he stays healthy for 5 more years you will be talking about him as one of the all time greats.
    Sure, as long as Boonen keeps coking up and there are no other really fast guys in the race.

  17. #42
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
    Sure, as long as Boonen keeps coking up and there are no other really fast guys in the race.
    Boonen's not really his competition though. Different type of rider. Cav's competition are people like Farrar, Hushovd, Peta, Dean and McEwen.
    i may have overreacted

  18. #43
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monosierra View Post
    I read somewhere that sprinters actually have longer shelf lives than GC contenders? Is that true?
    Not when it comes to TDF stage wins. No sprinter near the top, only GC guys.

  19. #44
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    LA won his first TdF stage in 1993. It's 2009 now. That's 16 years of being competitive at the TdF level. No sprinter that I'm aware of has had even 8 years of that level of quality, much less 16. I'd say the GC guys last longer. Of course, some burn out quicker, but the same can be said of sprinters.

  20. #45
    Senior Member Ratfish's Avatar
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    I think the Hincapie/Renshaw leadout is what makes Cav look unstoppable these days, and he's the first to admit that that is a big part of the reason.

    My gut feeling is that in the next few years Farrar is going to start stealing an ever-increasing number of stages from Cav.

  21. #46
    Senior Member SunSwingsLow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    I think the Hincapie/Renshaw leadout is what makes Cav look unstoppable these days, and he's the first to admit that that is a big part of the reason.
    Hes won with and without them leading out. Hes the fastest on the planet right now. Obviously its a team sport, but at the line there is no one better right now.
    1999 GT Xizang Ti

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  22. #47
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proteos View Post
    LA won his first TdF stage in 1993. It's 2009 now. That's 16 years of being competitive at the TdF level. No sprinter that I'm aware of has had even 8 years of that level of quality, much less 16. I'd say the GC guys last longer. Of course, some burn out quicker, but the same can be said of sprinters.
    The GC guys near the top of the list generally put in all their stage wins in 7 or 8 years. Armstrong won a stege in 93, but was not a GC contender until 99. He won all but 2 of his stages in 7 years. Merckx has all his stage wins in 7 (perhaps 6) years. Anquetil might be an exception. Not sure if he has a lot of stage wins, but he has one TDF win very young then a gap then 4 in a row.

  23. #48
    Senior Member SunSwingsLow's Avatar
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    Endurance is easier to maintain than outright youthful power. But its clear that elite athletes only have a certain dominance window and I would agree with that window being about 6-8 years.
    1999 GT Xizang Ti

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunSwingsLow View Post
    Endurance is easier to maintain than outright youthful power. But its clear that elite athletes only have a certain dominance window and I would agree with that window being about 6-8 years.

    I could probably agree with that, though even sprinters themselves admit their lifespans at the top tends to be short. That said, I have no reason to believe with the right leadout that Cav won't continue his winning ways for at least another 2 years. You can never know from year to year.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
    best of sprinters the last decade or so...

    worst temper-steels. 2nd-mc ewen.
    most flamboyant-cipollini-by a mile.
    best lead-out train-petacchi. 2nd-cipollini.
    best without a leadout teammate/team-mc ewen. 2nd-freire.
    scariest-abdou. is there anyone else even close???
    most competitive-zabel. 2nd-mc ewen.
    most consistent-zabel.
    most inconsistent-friere.
    straight up fastest-cavendish. 2nd-cipollini/mc ewen (tie).
    straight up slowest-boonen. 2nd-friere.
    best tactical acumen-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-cipollini.
    best classics sprinter-zabel. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-boonen. 4th-friere.
    best in a chaotic sprint-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel.
    best uphill finish sprinter(not counting valverde)-boonen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-bettini.
    best climber-zabel. 2nd-jalabert. 3rd-bettini. 4th-friere.
    best "just win, baby" sprinter-mc ewen.
    most disqualified-steels. 2nd-mc ewen. 3rd-bettini.
    best descender-bettini.
    best tt-jalabert. 2nd-hushovd.
    most in need of a lead-out-petacchi.
    unluckiest sprinter (most 2nd places)-zabel.
    most overrated-petacchi. 2nd-friere. 3rd-boonen.
    most underrated-hushovd. 2nd-friere. 3rd-jalabert.
    most powerful-cipollini. 2nd-hushovd.
    most explosive-cavendish. 2nd-mc ewen.
    biggest whiner-mc ewen. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-steels.
    most gentlemanly/best sportsman-zabel.
    best overall sprinter-zabel.

    welcome your comments...
    Here's a question . . . what is the rational behind Friere being second most over and under rated?

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