Mark Cavendish vs Alessandro Petacchi vs Mario Cipollin
07-06-09, 11:33 AM
#26
Big Blade
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
He is putting on a good show this year.
About him being cocky, he has come up when there really isnt any other sprinters. Had it been the Cipo, Steels, Zabel, Mcewen days, he might not be so cocky.
07-06-09, 11:54 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: silicon valley
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thats the new song he sings. Last year was more about him. Its good that he's becoming more professional.
He is putting on a good show this year.
About him being cocky, he has come up when there really isnt any other sprinters. Had it been the Cipo, Steels, Zabel, Mcewen days, he might not be so cocky.
He is putting on a good show this year.
About him being cocky, he has come up when there really isnt any other sprinters. Had it been the Cipo, Steels, Zabel, Mcewen days, he might not be so cocky.
ed rader
07-06-09, 12:04 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: silicon valley
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-06-09, 12:10 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 292
Bikes: LD-796R frame with Rival
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-06-09, 12:11 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,681
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I'm not saying Cav isn't good or even great. I am saying he's racking up great wins against non-great fields.
Go back to the first half of this decade. You had Cipollini, Petacchi, Zabel, McEwen, Freire...all guys we'll still be talking about 20 years from now.
Who is Cavendish regularly beating right now that we'll still be talking about 20 years from now? A 37-year old McEwen? Tyler Farrar? please. Boonen? for sure but Cavendish won 4 Tour stages last with Boonen not there. Daniele Bennati? Cavendish won 2 Giro stages against him in 2008 but Bennati won 3. He didn't ride the Tour last year. Boonen never does the Giro. Hushovd? okay, but he's a perennial top 5 also-ran who got it right once in a while like Jalabert.
I need to see Cavendish win a few more sprints with Boonen, Petacchi, Freire and Bennati all there at the end before I call him one of the all-time greats.
Go back to the first half of this decade. You had Cipollini, Petacchi, Zabel, McEwen, Freire...all guys we'll still be talking about 20 years from now.
Who is Cavendish regularly beating right now that we'll still be talking about 20 years from now? A 37-year old McEwen? Tyler Farrar? please. Boonen? for sure but Cavendish won 4 Tour stages last with Boonen not there. Daniele Bennati? Cavendish won 2 Giro stages against him in 2008 but Bennati won 3. He didn't ride the Tour last year. Boonen never does the Giro. Hushovd? okay, but he's a perennial top 5 also-ran who got it right once in a while like Jalabert.
I need to see Cavendish win a few more sprints with Boonen, Petacchi, Freire and Bennati all there at the end before I call him one of the all-time greats.
07-06-09, 05:44 PM
#32
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
07-06-09, 05:52 PM
#33
Big Blade
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Pretty funny
07-07-09, 01:19 PM
#34
Rat Bastard
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 1,504
Bikes: Cannondale Prophet, Specialized S-Works SL2, Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Comparing past vs present day riders is a very difficult proposition, if not impossible. Can you compare Babe Ruth and Ken Griffey, Jr? It's impossible to compare them head to head so it's based purely on opinion and speculation. Fun, but not very objective.
08-12-09, 05:30 PM
#35
MyBikeRunsonNukePower
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 186
Bikes: 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert / 2009 Specialized Allez Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I didn't want to start a new thread for this question, so I thought this one may be the best.
How fast, approximately, is Cavendish going ~50m from the finish?
How fast, approximately, is Cavendish going ~50m from the finish?
08-12-09, 06:24 PM
#36
Lance Hater
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
At the finish of the final stage this year he was moving between 42 and 46 with eight seconds to go. My math skills are poor so I don't know how this calculates to meters out from the finish.
Cipollini and Petacchi used to regularly cross the finish line at the Giro doing 46 mph.
And this quote from bicycling mag "When it came to sprinting, no sprinter in the history of the sport could rival Cipollini in terms of pure, unadulterated speed."
My personal opinion is that Cav doesn't yet have that pure top end speed. What is amazing about him is how long he can hold an amazing speed. I wonder what it feels like to be able to ride like him.
Cipollini and Petacchi used to regularly cross the finish line at the Giro doing 46 mph.
And this quote from bicycling mag "When it came to sprinting, no sprinter in the history of the sport could rival Cipollini in terms of pure, unadulterated speed."
My personal opinion is that Cav doesn't yet have that pure top end speed. What is amazing about him is how long he can hold an amazing speed. I wonder what it feels like to be able to ride like him.
Last edited by Laggard; 08-12-09 at 06:35 PM.
08-13-09, 07:35 AM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hes got 10 TdF wins in 1 1/2 tours. If he stays healthy for 5 more years you will be talking about him as one of the all time greats.
08-13-09, 08:03 AM
#38
Lance Hater
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
08-13-09, 10:15 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
08-13-09, 11:53 AM
#42
Lance Hater
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
08-13-09, 01:00 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
LA won his first TdF stage in 1993. It's 2009 now. That's 16 years of being competitive at the TdF level. No sprinter that I'm aware of has had even 8 years of that level of quality, much less 16. I'd say the GC guys last longer. Of course, some burn out quicker, but the same can be said of sprinters.
08-14-09, 11:59 AM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mêlée Island
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think the Hincapie/Renshaw leadout is what makes Cav look unstoppable these days, and he's the first to admit that that is a big part of the reason.
My gut feeling is that in the next few years Farrar is going to start stealing an ever-increasing number of stages from Cav.
My gut feeling is that in the next few years Farrar is going to start stealing an ever-increasing number of stages from Cav.
08-14-09, 01:12 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hes won with and without them leading out. Hes the fastest on the planet right now. Obviously its a team sport, but at the line there is no one better right now.
08-14-09, 02:23 PM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
LA won his first TdF stage in 1993. It's 2009 now. That's 16 years of being competitive at the TdF level. No sprinter that I'm aware of has had even 8 years of that level of quality, much less 16. I'd say the GC guys last longer. Of course, some burn out quicker, but the same can be said of sprinters.
08-14-09, 05:14 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Endurance is easier to maintain than outright youthful power. But its clear that elite athletes only have a certain dominance window and I would agree with that window being about 6-8 years.
08-14-09, 06:00 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I could probably agree with that, though even sprinters themselves admit their lifespans at the top tends to be short. That said, I have no reason to believe with the right leadout that Cav won't continue his winning ways for at least another 2 years. You can never know from year to year.
08-16-09, 12:35 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
best of sprinters the last decade or so...
worst temper-steels. 2nd-mc ewen.
most flamboyant-cipollini-by a mile.
best lead-out train-petacchi. 2nd-cipollini.
best without a leadout teammate/team-mc ewen. 2nd-freire.
scariest-abdou. is there anyone else even close???
most competitive-zabel. 2nd-mc ewen.
most consistent-zabel.
most inconsistent-friere.
straight up fastest-cavendish. 2nd-cipollini/mc ewen (tie).
straight up slowest-boonen. 2nd-friere.
best tactical acumen-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-cipollini.
best classics sprinter-zabel. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-boonen. 4th-friere.
best in a chaotic sprint-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel.
best uphill finish sprinter(not counting valverde)-boonen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-bettini.
best climber-zabel. 2nd-jalabert. 3rd-bettini. 4th-friere.
best "just win, baby" sprinter-mc ewen.
most disqualified-steels. 2nd-mc ewen. 3rd-bettini.
best descender-bettini.
best tt-jalabert. 2nd-hushovd.
most in need of a lead-out-petacchi.
unluckiest sprinter (most 2nd places)-zabel.
most overrated-petacchi. 2nd-friere. 3rd-boonen.
most underrated-hushovd. 2nd-friere. 3rd-jalabert.
most powerful-cipollini. 2nd-hushovd.
most explosive-cavendish. 2nd-mc ewen.
biggest whiner-mc ewen. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-steels.
most gentlemanly/best sportsman-zabel.
best overall sprinter-zabel.
welcome your comments...
worst temper-steels. 2nd-mc ewen.
most flamboyant-cipollini-by a mile.
best lead-out train-petacchi. 2nd-cipollini.
best without a leadout teammate/team-mc ewen. 2nd-freire.
scariest-abdou. is there anyone else even close???
most competitive-zabel. 2nd-mc ewen.
most consistent-zabel.
most inconsistent-friere.
straight up fastest-cavendish. 2nd-cipollini/mc ewen (tie).
straight up slowest-boonen. 2nd-friere.
best tactical acumen-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-cipollini.
best classics sprinter-zabel. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-boonen. 4th-friere.
best in a chaotic sprint-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel.
best uphill finish sprinter(not counting valverde)-boonen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-bettini.
best climber-zabel. 2nd-jalabert. 3rd-bettini. 4th-friere.
best "just win, baby" sprinter-mc ewen.
most disqualified-steels. 2nd-mc ewen. 3rd-bettini.
best descender-bettini.
best tt-jalabert. 2nd-hushovd.
most in need of a lead-out-petacchi.
unluckiest sprinter (most 2nd places)-zabel.
most overrated-petacchi. 2nd-friere. 3rd-boonen.
most underrated-hushovd. 2nd-friere. 3rd-jalabert.
most powerful-cipollini. 2nd-hushovd.
most explosive-cavendish. 2nd-mc ewen.
biggest whiner-mc ewen. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-steels.
most gentlemanly/best sportsman-zabel.
best overall sprinter-zabel.
welcome your comments...