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  1. #1
    Senior Member Thulsadoom's Avatar
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    What a load of crap. This tour sucks!

    This whole Lance vs. Contador thing is such bull****.

    I'm a huge Lance fan. When he was winning tour after tour, and so many people wanted to defame his character, I always defended the guy. I thought, hey, he's the man. He's the strongest, and that's that.

    Everytime Lance won the tour, he always credited his team. He said, over and over, unless the whole team is 100% dedicated to ONE rider, you have no chance at winning the overall GC. (I always figured that was a shot at T-Mobile, since they always had inter-team tensions, and rarely had a defined leader)

    Here's the thing, Contador is the man now. He's young, he's extremely talented, and he's probably stronger than Lance. Could he have beaten Lance back in the day? Who knows, probably not. But now he's the man, it is Contadors time. The team should be 100% working for him.

    But now Lance is back. Ok, great. He's on great form, awesome! But he's on the same team as Contador, so now we have no team leader, that makes things complicated, but it's been more or less going OK, so whatever.

    Here's what pisses me off. Now there's this crap that Contador did the wrong thing yesterday by attacking on the last mile. Every time I turn around I hear that he's making enemies on the team by attacking his own team mates. That's bull****. If Lance wasn't there, everyone would be praising Contador, saying that he did exactly the right thing, he made up some time, showed his strength, stamped his authority. But no, even Eddie is saying that he shouldn't have attacked. Garbage.

    I don't think Contador trusts Lance/Levi/Johan, and I don't blame him. I think Contador did the right thing, and I think he knows that he's going to have to buck the bull**** system, including his own team in order to win. And he shouldn't have to do that. I hate to say this, but I hope Contador kicks Lances ass in the time trial, and blows him off his wheel on Ventoux also.

    Of course, then everyone will just ***** that he cheated and went against team tactics in order to win, but ****em, I say.

  2. #2
    Seņor Member kimconyc's Avatar
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    Relax, it's just one big show.

    Considering your reaction, I think the TdF is a success so far.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    The thing that sucks about this year's Tour is the lack of true mountain top finishes. Yesterday, was the first and only mountain stage that will finish at the top of the climb. Guess what? There are NO other mountain-top finishes. Today is a mountain stage, but that is totally negated because the finish is all downhill. After the last climb is passed, there is another 40km to go to the finish. This Tour will remain relatively the same on standings. It will be decided in the final week's time trial.

    BTW, I agree with the majority of the original poster's comments. Armstrong was clearly holding back his sentiments after being interviewed at the finish yesterday. He didn't want Contador to attack. As much as Astana is downplaying this, there is something brewing. Armstrong has the support of Bruyneel and most of the other riders. All of them know that next year if they want to stay on the team, then they will ride for Armstrong. Contador will be marginalized on this team.
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  4. #4
    Crank Crushing Redneck SamDaBikinMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    The thing that sucks about this year's Tour is the lack of true mountain top finishes.
    Take a minute to look over the tour stages and come back when you have a clue.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Senior Member telebianchi's Avatar
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    Similar sentiments given by Levi and Johan. While I agree that AC did the right thing for AC to attack at the end, can he win the whole thing if he ticks off the rest of the team? Would he be better off to toe the line until the third week?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Yesterday, was the first and only mountain stage that will finish at the top of the climb. Guess what? There are NO other mountain-top finishes. Today is a mountain stage, but that is totally negated because the finish is all downhill. After the last climb is passed, there is another 40km to go to the finish. This Tour will remain relatively the same on standings. It will be decided in the final week's time trial.
    I AGREE Totally. Especially that down hill sprint in a place called Mont Ventoux? Cripes the race is pretty much over. I see Cavendish winning that SPrint finish at Ventoux! What a horrible place to have such a flat finish on the second to last day of the tour to boot.!!!
    I have a photographic memory....unfortunately I am out of film....

  7. #7
    Senior Member MikeM21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsadoom View Post
    This whole Lance vs. Contador thing is such bull****.

    I'm a huge Lance fan. When he was winning tour after tour, and so many people wanted to defame his character, I always defended the guy. I thought, hey, he's the man. He's the strongest, and that's that.

    Everytime Lance won the tour, he always credited his team. He said, over and over, unless the whole team is 100% dedicated to ONE rider, you have no chance at winning the overall GC. (I always figured that was a shot at T-Mobile, since they always had inter-team tensions, and rarely had a defined leader)

    Here's the thing, Contador is the man now. He's young, he's extremely talented, and he's probably stronger than Lance. Could he have beaten Lance back in the day? Who knows, probably not. But now he's the man, it is Contadors time. The team should be 100% working for him.

    But now Lance is back. Ok, great. He's on great form, awesome! But he's on the same team as Contador, so now we have no team leader, that makes things complicated, but it's been more or less going OK, so whatever.

    Here's what pisses me off. Now there's this crap that Contador did the wrong thing yesterday by attacking on the last mile. Every time I turn around I hear that he's making enemies on the team by attacking his own team mates. That's bull****. If Lance wasn't there, everyone would be praising Contador, saying that he did exactly the right thing, he made up some time, showed his strength, stamped his authority. But no, even Eddie is saying that he shouldn't have attacked. Garbage.

    I don't think Contador trusts Lance/Levi/Johan, and I don't blame him. I think Contador did the right thing, and I think he knows that he's going to have to buck the bull**** system, including his own team in order to win. And he shouldn't have to do that. I hate to say this, but I hope Contador kicks Lances ass in the time trial, and blows him off his wheel on Ventoux also.

    Of course, then everyone will just ***** that he cheated and went against team tactics in order to win, but ****em, I say.

    Everything you say is correct except for your conclusion. This intra-Astana strife is what is making this tour an absolute blast!!!

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  8. #8
    Senior Member MikeM21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    The thing that sucks about this year's Tour is the lack of true mountain top finishes. Yesterday, was the first and only mountain stage that will finish at the top of the climb. Guess what? There are NO other mountain-top finishes. Today is a mountain stage, but that is totally negated because the finish is all downhill. After the last climb is passed, there is another 40km to go to the finish. This Tour will remain relatively the same on standings. It will be decided in the final week's time trial.

    BTW, I agree with the majority of the original poster's comments. Armstrong was clearly holding back his sentiments after being interviewed at the finish yesterday. He didn't want Contador to attack. As much as Astana is downplaying this, there is something brewing. Armstrong has the support of Bruyneel and most of the other riders. All of them know that next year if they want to stay on the team, then they will ride for Armstrong. Contador will be marginalized on this team.
    Foot in mouth much?!?
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  9. #9
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    The thing that sucks about this year's Tour is the lack of true mountain top finishes. Yesterday, was the first and only mountain stage that will finish at the top of the climb. Guess what? There are NO other mountain-top finishes. ...
    Stages 15 and 20 don't count?
    Last edited by USAZorro; 07-11-09 at 12:34 PM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    The thing that sucks about this year's Tour is the lack of true mountain top finishes. Yesterday, was the first and only mountain stage that will finish at the top of the climb. Guess what? There are NO other mountain-top finishes. Today is a mountain stage, but that is totally negated because the finish is all downhill. After the last climb is passed, there is another 40km to go to the finish. This Tour will remain relatively the same on standings. It will be decided in the final week's time trial.

    BTW, I agree with the majority of the original poster's comments. Armstrong was clearly holding back his sentiments after being interviewed at the finish yesterday. He didn't want Contador to attack. As much as Astana is downplaying this, there is something brewing. Armstrong has the support of Bruyneel and most of the other riders. All of them know that next year if they want to stay on the team, then they will ride for Armstrong. Contador will be marginalized on this team.
    Really?

    I thought Ventoux qualified as an HC finish...having ridden it, I can tell you it's a b!tch.

    Every time I come back here, I get a bigger chuckle.
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  11. #11
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    This tours sucks? It sucks so much you'll be watching every minute of it

    AC is a great talent, and maybe he can better LA and everyone else. . . but he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. LA has intangibles AC will never have. LA knows what to do and when to do it.

    Contadors cheeky attack yesterday out of fear shows this. While he proved he was strong, to do so with your own team pacing you will only alienate him from his own team. . . and while a good team isn't necessary to win the tour . . . it doesn't hurt to have one on your side.


    I think all this chaos makes for a great tour.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Thulsadoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
    Contadors cheeky attack yesterday out of fear shows this. While he proved he was strong, to do so with your own team pacing you will only alienate him from his own team. . . and while a good team isn't necessary to win the tour . . . it doesn't hurt to have one on your side.
    I don't how it could be considered an attack ON YOUR OWN TEAM, when AC is a team leader and it was the last mile of a mountain-top finish stage in the Pyrenees.

    I thought that the concept is: The team does the pacemaking for the majority of the stage, protecting the GC contender and then at the end the GC contender hauls ass and tries to get time. Lance did that over and over in every one of his tour wins. AC did what he was supposed to do. What was there to be gained by him sucking on Evans wheel with the rest of the team?
    Last edited by Thulsadoom; 07-11-09 at 11:22 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member RacerX's Avatar
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    I agree, Contador is not getting the respect and full support as a team leader that he was promised and deserves.

    Lance likes to try and redefine what a team leader is to suit his strengths.

    The fact is, Contador gained time on his rivals. ANYTIME you can do that, it is a good move. For Lance and Astana to say, "that's not part of the plan" is ********. That shows their agenda, and Contador is not a part of it.

    I'm excited to see what the mountains hold. They usually sort out the b.s.

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    Nope, y'all are getting played just like the other teams. The plan is to keep everyone guessing at who the real team leader is, and to portray a lot more internal strife than actually exists. My guess is that AC, LA, LL and AK will all take turns showing their hand at attacking and trying to crack all the other GC hopefuls. I don't doubt for a second that JB has a plan. Maybe they will let the Annecy ITT decide who they support in full after they blow up everyone else? Truthfully we won't know the plan until we see it. That is JB's plan, folks.

  15. #15
    Senior Member jnvw's Avatar
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    My .02

    The entire event of lance back in the Tour has made it fun to watch. Thought I don’t agree with AC attacking with 2k’s to go, I sure am glad we got that out of the way.
    Now Lance has every right to attack on any stage to regain time on AC including the summit finish at Ventoux.

    Poor Levi, not getting any attention so far this year. Has anyone thought of the top 3 this year being all Astana?

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    I think he meant the only mountaintop finish in the Pyrenees. Anyway, the OP is largely correct about the Pharmstrong games.

    I think he may be wrong about Bruyneel who is a ruthless POS just like LA. Why would he hitch is wagon to LA, when it's clear that LA is the past and Contador is the present and future? LA needs the Hog but the Hog does not need LA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnvw View Post
    My .02

    The entire event of lance back in the Tour has made it fun to watch. Thought I don’t agree with AC attacking with 2k’s to go, I sure am glad we got that out of the way.
    Now Lance has every right to attack on any stage to regain time on AC including the summit finish at Ventoux.
    Really? Wouldn't that go against the Pharmstrong template of working for one team leader? If this is anyone's fault, it's the Hog's for not making it clear that AC is that leader, even to the guy with the gigantic ego. The Hog did give AC the #21 though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnvw View Post
    Poor Levi, not getting any attention so far this year. Has anyone thought of the top 3 this year being all Astana?
    Is there anyone who hasn't thought of that? Why don't you feel so bad for Kloeden? These Astana guys are hilarious, no shame at all. Imagine Kloden won this thing, or got on the podium and then has to answer the inevitable Freiburg questions?

  18. #18
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsadoom View Post
    This whole Lance vs. Contador thing is such bull****.

    I'm a huge Lance fan. When he was winning tour after tour, and so many people wanted to defame his character, I always defended the guy. I thought, hey, he's the man. He's the strongest, and that's that.

    Everytime Lance won the tour, he always credited his team. He said, over and over, unless the whole team is 100% dedicated to ONE rider, you have no chance at winning the overall GC. (I always figured that was a shot at T-Mobile, since they always had inter-team tensions, and rarely had a defined leader)

    Here's the thing, Contador is the man now. He's young, he's extremely talented, and he's probably stronger than Lance. Could he have beaten Lance back in the day? Who knows, probably not. But now he's the man, it is Contadors time. The team should be 100% working for him.

    But now Lance is back. Ok, great. He's on great form, awesome! But he's on the same team as Contador, so now we have no team leader, that makes things complicated, but it's been more or less going OK, so whatever.

    Here's what pisses me off. Now there's this crap that Contador did the wrong thing yesterday by attacking on the last mile. Every time I turn around I hear that he's making enemies on the team by attacking his own team mates. That's bull****. If Lance wasn't there, everyone would be praising Contador, saying that he did exactly the right thing, he made up some time, showed his strength, stamped his authority. But no, even Eddie is saying that he shouldn't have attacked. Garbage.

    I don't think Contador trusts Lance/Levi/Johan, and I don't blame him. I think Contador did the right thing, and I think he knows that he's going to have to buck the bull**** system, including his own team in order to win. And he shouldn't have to do that. I hate to say this, but I hope Contador kicks Lances ass in the time trial, and blows him off his wheel on Ventoux also.

    Of course, then everyone will just ***** that he cheated and went against team tactics in order to win, but ****em, I say.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsadoom View Post
    Here's what pisses me off. Now there's this crap that Contador did the wrong thing yesterday by attacking on the last mile. Every time I turn around I hear that he's making enemies on the team by attacking his own team mates. That's bull****. If Lance wasn't there, everyone would be praising Contador, saying that he did exactly the right thing, he made up some time, showed his strength, stamped his authority. But no, even Eddie is saying that he shouldn't have attacked. Garbage.

    I don't think Contador trusts Lance/Levi/Johan, and I don't blame him. I think Contador did the right thing, and I think he knows that he's going to have to buck the bull**** system, including his own team in order to win. And he shouldn't have to do that. I hate to say this, but I hope Contador kicks Lances ass in the time trial, and blows him off his wheel on Ventoux also.

    Of course, then everyone will just ***** that he cheated and went against team tactics in order to win, but ****em, I say.
    He absolutely did the wrong thing. Bruyneel told the team to let Nocentini take the jersey. If your boss tells you to do something & you do the opposite, do you remain employed? Bruyneel tried to tactfully cover it up this morning, but I imagine he had a serious conversation with Contador & his future on the team in the back of the bus last night. Lance won 7 times because he listened. Contador won't if he doesn't. There are several reason why Bruyneel didn't want any of them attacking yesterday, only covering attacks.

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    I think all of the drama is making it a great tour. No one knows what to expect next. Maybe it will come down to the last TT, that would be awesome. I'm trying not to get to involved with all the BS and just enjoy the race. Conatador does look very strong though, guess we'll see.

    And I love the mountain top finishes also, it really shows who's got form. I'm pretty sure Cavendish will not be there at the end of MV...lol.

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    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsadoom View Post
    This whole Lance vs. Contador thing is such bull****.

    I'm a huge Lance fan. When he was winning tour after tour, and so many people wanted to defame his character, I always defended the guy. I thought, hey, he's the man. He's the strongest, and that's that.

    Everytime Lance won the tour, he always credited his team. He said, over and over, unless the whole team is 100% dedicated to ONE rider, you have no chance at winning the overall GC. (I always figured that was a shot at T-Mobile, since they always had inter-team tensions, and rarely had a defined leader)

    Here's the thing, Contador is the man now. He's young, he's extremely talented, and he's probably stronger than Lance. Could he have beaten Lance back in the day? Who knows, probably not. But now he's the man, it is Contadors time. The team should be 100% working for him.

    But now Lance is back. Ok, great. He's on great form, awesome! But he's on the same team as Contador, so now we have no team leadert, that makes things complicaed, but it's been more or less going OK, so whatever.

    Here's what pisses me off. Now there's this crap that Contador did the wrong thing yesterday by attacking on the last mile. Every time I turn around I hear that he's making enemies on the team by attacking his own team mates. That's bull****. If Lance wasn't there, everyone would be praising Contador, saying that he did exactly the right thing, he made up some time, showed his strength, stamped his authority. But no, even Eddie is saying that he shouldn't have attacked. Garbage.

    I don't think Contador trusts Lance/Levi/Johan, and I don't blame him. I think Contador did the right thing, and I think he knows that he's going to have to buck the bull**** system, including his own team in order to win. And he shouldn't have to do that. I hate to say this, but I hope Contador kicks Lances ass in the time trial, and blows him off his wheel on Ventoux also.

    Of course, then everyone will just ***** that he cheated and went against team tactics in order to win, but ****em, I say.
    Wait just one second there mate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveF View Post
    He absolutely did the wrong thing. Bruyneel told the team to let Nocentini take the jersey. If your boss tells you to do something & you do the opposite, do you remain employed? Bruyneel tried to tactfully cover it up this morning, but I imagine he had a serious conversation with Contador & his future on the team in the back of the bus last night. Lance won 7 times because he listened. Contador won't if he doesn't. There are several reason why Bruyneel didn't want any of them attacking yesterday, only covering attacks.
    Your psychic powers are amazing my young padawan.

    First, Contador is the team leader, no question about it.
    Second, attacking with a mountain top finish is the exact time for a climber to attack.
    Third, Lance has taken the yellow jersey on the 8th stage but it is stupid for Contador?
    And finally, D, Lance has also held the jersey early, lost it and then regained it. Funny, huh?

    Keep up the speculation though, it is entertaining.

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    How many seconds is Contador in front of Lance?

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    Lets just say it was Lance who attacked yesterday.
    Heres what the commentary would be:

    Phil Leggett: "And there goes Lance!! We are seeing an amazing attack here by Lance Armstrong of Astana! This man is back; and he is back with even more razor sharp focus and sheer will than ever before. Look at this Paul, well, all the critics said he was washed up, all the critics said he didnt have the form we have seen before in past years, but look at him now!
    Paul Sherwen: "This is why this is the best bike race in the world Phil. Yes there has been team rivalry, the media has tried to cause a rift for these men of Team Astana, but today, we are seeing that they are together, we are seeing they are working to break ALL other rivals from other teams. See Phil, this is why Armstrong is such an amazing rider, he saw the opportunity, he saw the chance, and now he is showing all these younger men how its done. When you see a chance to gain a few second, you take it Phil! This is a 3 week race, and you never know how things can shape up, so every single second you gain on these roads is so critical."
    Phil Leggett:Paul, the speed with which he took off here today, his rivals must be thinking, just how do we stop this man!
    Paul Sherwen: They would have had long conversations in the Team bus this morning, they would have studied this route, Lance would have come out here in the winter months to look at how this mountain went, Lance knew the finish was difficult, Lance knew he would have a chance to snatch a few seconds, and now we are being treated to one of the most amazing attacks we have ever seen."
    Phil Leggett: We are looking at the legs of Lance Armstrong here folks, 4 years in retirement, and now he comes back to make it look so easy..... Just where do the talents of this man end?? He saw his rivals in difficulty, he knew exactly how they were feeling, he knew each and every corner that was left to the finish, and he said you know what, I see a gap, I see a chance, Im going! And this is why Lance is the leader, this is why Lance commands respect, this is why he is going to walk away with this year's Tour De France. We are seeing this man lay down the foundations of what could be the greatest our win on top of the seven he has already won. Contador is giving away precious time here Paul, Lance was alert, he read the moves, he stayed in the perfect position and has put everyone in difficulty. Poor Contador really has to try and figure out how he is going to preserve time here if he wants to wear the yellow jersey for Astana. Just the other day, we saw the field split up in the cross winds, Lance was up there, and today, he is showing us once again, how his superior experience is putting him over the younger Contador."
    Paul Sherwen: Phil, Cadel watsed a lot of energy with those unsuccessful attacks, now is the time Contador should have gone with Lance. Now is the time Contador should counter attack and bridge up to Lance. But Contador wasnt paying attention, Contador is not as astute as lance, and now we are watching Lance gain precious time over everyone.


    This is exactly how the commentary would have gone.
    Last edited by Howzit; 07-11-09 at 01:56 PM.

  25. #25
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    Lance is the man and riding for the team. It is apparent Contador is not. Time will tell who wins. He should blowing the doors off the old man if he is that good.

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