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  1. #1
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    Seems Lance is PO'd


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    Domestic Domestique UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
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    Does Astana just not have it together yet or are they self-destructing? I know there's still 2 weeks left, but it appears Contador went off script yesterday, Lance is pissed, and possibly neither one talking to each other, how will this team fare? They are certainly the strongest team on the tour, but they seem split which can't be good...

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    I think Contador has good reason to be pissed, but it depends on what he was promised.

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    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Look, that Armstrong of then who focused on the enemy to win is physically not the same Armstrong of today. He can gumption up to make some marks, but AC is too physically ready.

    The advantage has on AC is smarts. AC doesn't appear to be the brightest candle on the cake, so LA can take advantage of that and his relationships to make something happen, but I don't think if they are both in the same position that LA can physically keep up, the gumption will wear thin when the body starts to quit.

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    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    I posted in the stage thread for tomorrow, but I have a feeling there will be a massive battle tomorrow on the Tourmalet. I am not saying it will happen, but it would not surprise me if Contador tries to crack Lance tomorrow. Who knows maybe the comments from JB, and EM will settle him down until the Alps.

    I don't blame him for being irritated.

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    Senior Member SunSwingsLow's Avatar
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    Seems to me this team just got split into 2. So who with Lance, Popo and Levi and who else? Whos with AC? Kloden, Zubeldia?? Who has the domestiques?
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    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunSwingsLow View Post
    Seems to me this team just got split into 2. So who with Lance, Popo and Levi and who else? Whos with AC? Kloden, Zubeldia?? Who has the domestiques?
    you forgot to put bruyneel in lance's column. contador has serghio paulinho on his side.

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    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    you forgot to put bruyneel in lance's column. contador has serghio paulinho on his side.

    ed rader

    Armstrong has all the climbers on his side. Levi, Pops, Kloden, etc. These guys know if they want a contract next year that they will ride for Armstrong. It obvious that Bruyneel is also in Armstrong's corner. Contador is pretty much riding solo in this Tour.
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    It doesn't really matter. Whoever is the strongest will take the prize. You can't fake or bluff your way to victory in the TDF. I don't think anyone knows what Lance has in the tank. We will find out soon enough.

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    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    ^^You don't think team support matters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    ^^You don't think team support matters?
    Astana will not fall apart. At some point the stronger rider from Astana will be determined. No way will JB let it get out of hand.

    Astana has the strongest team by a mile. Even during the Hinault, Lemond battle, which was pretty pissy, it didn't affect the final outcome.

    Who in the heck can compete with Astana, even if there is some friction? If Lance can't hang with AC then he will ride for AC. If Lance looks like he can win and JB lets him go with it, even without AC cooperating Astana has too many guns for any other team to compete against.

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    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian View Post
    Astana will not fall apart. At some point the stronger rider from Astana will be determined. No way will JB let it get out of hand.

    Astana has the strongest team by a mile. Even during the Hinault, Lemond battle, which was pretty pissy, it didn't affect the final outcome.

    Who in the heck can compete with Astana, even if there is some friction? If Lance can't hang with AC then he will ride for AC. If Lance looks like he can win and JB lets him go with it, even without AC cooperating Astana has too many guns for any other team to compete against.
    astana was contador's team before armstrong made his "comeback".

    unlike a young greg lemond or jan ullrich contador has won three grand tours. and contador has a very bright future ahead of him. i think the game that bruyneel is playing is despicable. the team should be supporting contador without question.

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    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian View Post
    Astana will not fall apart. At some point the stronger rider from Astana will be determined. No way will JB let it get out of hand.

    Astana has the strongest team by a mile. Even during the Hinault, Lemond battle, which was pretty pissy, it didn't affect the final outcome.

    Who in the heck can compete with Astana, even if there is some friction? If Lance can't hang with AC then he will ride for AC. If Lance looks like he can win and JB lets him go with it, even without AC cooperating Astana has too many guns for any other team to compete against.
    i agree with this statement. if it looks like lance can win JB will support lance. even if AC would win by a larger margin JB would support lance.

    i hope AC puts the hammer down soon .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    astana was contador's team before armstrong made his "comeback".

    unlike a young greg lemond or jan ullrich contador has won three grand tours. and contador has a very bright future ahead of him. i think the game that bruyneel is playing is despicable. the team should be supporting contador without question.

    ed rader
    Think what you may, but what if AC gets sick or crashes or LA shows better form? Right now Astana is in the drivers seat. I think Astana vis a vis the other teams is much stronger than any team that JB or LA has had. If LA wins it would be a lot bigger than if AC wins.

    Even Eddy Merckx had his haters because he was so dominate. Right now everyone has the warm fuzzies for Merckx but that wasn't always the case. Just ask the fan who punched him during the race.

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    agree with erader... totally unfair and dangerous plan to not declare AC the #1 GC contender. AC has every right to be pissed and he would be wise to not trust lance and basically mark lance as if he were a rival on another team. i don't buy lance's "riding for the team" M.O. lance is in it to win it and he is going to do everything possible to make it happen within the guise of his supporting role. lance is a snake, you dont win 7 tours by being a nice guy, you do it by being ruthless to everyone in your path. if he wins 8, i guarantee no one in the states will care how or who he had to step over to do it.

    i hope there are some major fireworks at the tormoulet tomorrow, kind of like those caged battle royales of the WWF... wish it was mountain top finish though. big big chance for AC to really test everyone including lance.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    astana was contador's team before armstrong made his "comeback".

    unlike a young greg lemond or jan ullrich contador has won three grand tours. and contador has a very bright future ahead of him. i think the game that bruyneel is playing is despicable. the team should be supporting contador without question.

    ed rader
    Not to mention the game Armstrong is apparently playing. After stage 6 he was asked about the team leadership thing and saying how it was up to the strongest, Arcalis would help a lot to decide that, and that he was "honestly" there to win himself. Its only a wonder that Contador waited so long as Lance had all but said he was taking the stage and the yellow jersey, and leaving Contador to guard against attacks.

    Tables turned, I'd like to see him suck it up and support Contador myself. Recalling Lemond and Hinault in 85 and 86 - who wants that again? At worst Astana can just screw up the whole rest of the tour by not letting anyone actually race, maybe until Ventoux.
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  17. #17
    Older than dirt CCrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlife1975 View Post
    lance is a snake, you dont win 7 tours by being a nice guy, you do it by being ruthless to everyone in your path. if he wins 8, i guarantee no one in the states will care how or who he had to step over to do it.
    .
    Lance is a strategist. If he wins it (and personally I hope he does) it'll be because he sat back and let the others make mistakes that he then used to his advantage. I don't see where than makes him a snake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCrew View Post
    Lance is a strategist. If he wins it (and personally I hope he does) it'll be because he sat back and let the others make mistakes that he then used to his advantage. I don't see where than makes him a snake.
    hmmm... lets see... snakes kind of like to lay low and hide in the bushes or under rocks... eventually, prey something like a small rodent, rabbit or human will mistakenly disturb them or cross into their path and BOOM, you get screwed... doesn't that kind of sound like lance's strategy for this years tour?

  19. #19
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian View Post
    Think what you may, but what if AC gets sick or crashes or LA shows better form? Right now Astana is in the drivers seat. I think Astana vis a vis the other teams is much stronger than any team that JB or LA has had. If LA wins it would be a lot bigger than if AC wins.

    Even Eddy Merckx had his haters because he was so dominate. Right now everyone has the warm fuzzies for Merckx but that wasn't always the case. Just ask the fan who punched him during the race.
    a 37-year-old has never won the tour, nor even worn the yellow jersey. ever. riis was 35 when he won and he was OLD and did not repeat.

    it's AC's team, and he can win the tour. he showed that on stage 7 and on the first TT. so if AC does falter there are three guys that can step up, and armstrong is one of them.

    astana is AC's team, or it should be, and he should have the team's undivided support.

    what lance is saying is there are four guys that can win so team leadership is up in the air. pretty generous for a guy who was a complete tyrant when he had his own team.

    if it were anyone but contador i'd say that lance would have a case but like i said before contador has already won all three grand tours.

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    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    That is true, but this isn't going to go to well for Contador. Apparently, from that MSNBC article, it's pretty evident there was some sort of argument on the team bus after the stage and we already know that Armstrong, Levi, and Bruyneel aren't happy about it. You know that they are going to try to downplay whatever rift there is, so if Armstrong and Bruyneel are saying that it was wrong of Contador to attack, you know that this sentiment was probably magnified much more in the private team meeting on that bus. Even Armstrong even said that there were hurt feelings confirming that there was some kind of dispute that precipitated all this. Unfortunately, Contador is not getting the support from the Bruyneel or the other riders on this.

    The Bruyneel & Armstrong partnership doesn't want any Astana attacks to go off in the mountains. Their plan is to cover all the other teams' attacks and let the other riders try to win the race. All this does is negates Contador's climbing advantage because even if Contador can drop Evans, Sastre, and the others, he will not be allowed to. This sets up the final week's TT as the deciding stage.
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  21. #21
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Lance said the race would sort it out, and now that it is, he's miffed.

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    Older than dirt CCrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlife1975 View Post
    hmmm... lets see... snakes kind of like to lay low and hide in the bushes or under rocks... eventually, prey something like a small rodent, rabbit or human will mistakenly disturb them or cross into their path and BOOM, you get screwed... doesn't that kind of sound like lance's strategy for this years tour?
    Shark maybe.. I fully expect when there's enough blood in the water he'll be driven to attack. At the moment however I don't see where he's doing more than playing a chess game. Let the opponent sacrifice his pieces and use that to his advantage. Like I said, strategist.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Mash Master's Avatar
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    Did you see the interview with bruyneel today? He just came from the team meeting and it was like he just came from seeing the school principal. Should be fireworks.
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    Senior Member Mash Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    Lance said the race would sort it out, and now that it is, he's miffed.
    I'm not sure I agree that it has yet. Both have have a day where they gained on each other. Still more to come.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    That is true, but this isn't going to go to well for Contador. Apparently, from that MSNBC article, it's pretty evident there was some sort of argument on the team bus after the stage and we already know that Armstrong, Levi, and Bruyneel aren't happy about it. You know that they are going to try to downplay whatever rift there is, so if Armstrong and Bruyneel are saying that it was wrong of Contador to attack, you know that this sentiment was probably magnified much more in the private team meeting on that bus. Even Armstrong even said that there were hurt feelings confirming that there was some kind of dispute that precipitated all this. Unfortunately, Contador is not getting the support from the Bruyneel or the other riders on this.

    The Bruyneel & Armstrong partnership doesn't want any Astana attacks to go off in the mountains. Their plan is to cover all the other teams' attacks and let the other riders try to win the race. All this does is negates Contador's climbing advantage because even if Contador can drop Evans, Sastre, and the others, he will not be allowed to. This sets up the final week's TT as the deciding stage.
    it's not going well for AC because of the way bruyneel is handling the matter.

    you and others seem to think that it's smarter to appease lance than to keep contador happy. that just doesn't make sense to me.

    first off i don't think lance can win and secondly contador can win and is by far the best all-around racer in the bunch.

    if contador were riding for riis or vaughters i'll bet armstrong would not have been welcome on either team. maybe kimmage was right afterall....

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