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  1. #1
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    can someone please answer me this

    Why is it when they do the ending times for each stage..anyone who is in the peldeton gets the same time no matter whether they are in the front or the back. also i believe they mentioned when shleck got the flat tire that if it was within 3km he would have gotten the same time as everyone...why???

    i get that they are supposed to share the pain in leading the pack, but why not put sensors on all bikes and have official times that way

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    Senior Member kwrides's Avatar
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    Safety. It prevents pileups at the finish.
    Quote Originally Posted by dewaday View Post
    I'm 50 years old. My parents find cycling 6-8 hours completely incomprehensible and self indulgent. Of course they're right, but I continue to ignore them as a form of rebellion.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Shleck flatted with 4.5k to go - no protection. At 3k to go, they allow a rider impeded by a mechanical or crash to get the same time as the group the started in so that the race won't be decided by luck. Inside 3k, the race officials deem it unreasonable for the rider to get back to the field.
    Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 07-12-09 at 12:08 PM.
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    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    i get that they are supposed to share the pain in leading the pack, but why not put sensors on all bikes and have official times that way
    They do have sensors and take times, but regard the peloton as one unit, since you don't need the chaos of having GC contenders trying to mix with the sprinters at the finish to gain a second or two over their rival at the back of the pack.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

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    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    Why is it when they do the ending times for each stage..anyone who is in the peldeton gets the same time no matter whether they are in the front or the back. also i believe they mentioned when shleck got the flat tire that if it was within 3km he would have gotten the same time as everyone...why???

    i get that they are supposed to share the pain in leading the pack, but why not put sensors on all bikes and have official times that way
    Since you know the rule thats all you need to know.

    180 cyclists sprinting for the line to nudge in front of someone else isnt safe is it?

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    This gives the sprinters a chance to shine at their specialty, and keeps the gc contenders from possibly getting hurt and knocked out of the race.

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    ehhh, i dont know... I get it, sure its safe. but isnt bad luck part of racing? I love the TdF and have been following it closely this year (being in France during last year's was what got me into cycling!) but i feel like after watching it for 2 hours a day and seeing the times EXACTLY as they were the day before is a little dissapointing...I second here, two seconds there, i think that it would make the entire race more exciting, not just the finish

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    Using nascar as an example (which is prob a horrible example), say you have a 6 hour race each sunday. Keeping race results by who's "in the pack" would be awful!

    Dont you think the most exciting 30 seconds so far during this year's tour was during the team time trial where Lance missed the yellow jesery by miliseconds? i think that feeling would happen every stage!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    ehhh, i dont know... I get it, sure its safe. but isnt bad luck part of racing? I love the TdF and have been following it closely this year (being in France during last year's was what got me into cycling!) but i feel like after watching it for 2 hours a day and seeing the times EXACTLY as they were the day before is a little dissapointing...I second here, two seconds there, i think that it would make the entire race more exciting, not just the finish
    There are plenty of bad luck opportunities already, no need for the organizers to manufacture more of them.
    Last edited by haimtoeg; 07-12-09 at 09:35 PM.

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    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Cycling isn't nascar. That's your problem right there.

    In cycling, you have to work for your time, not just sit in the pack in front of your rival.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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    Has coddling tendencies. KiddSisko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    Using nascar as an example (which is prob a horrible example), say you have a 6 hour race each sunday. Keeping race results by who's "in the pack" would be awful!

    Dont you think the most exciting 30 seconds so far during this year's tour was during the team time trial where Lance missed the yellow jesery by miliseconds? i think that feeling would happen every stage!
    :jesuschristfacepalm:

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    Senior Member LittleSally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    ehhh, i dont know... I get it, sure its safe. but isnt bad luck part of racing? I love the TdF and have been following it closely this year (being in France during last year's was what got me into cycling!) but i feel like after watching it for 2 hours a day and seeing the times EXACTLY as they were the day before is a little dissapointing...I second here, two seconds there, i think that it would make the entire race more exciting, not just the finish
    If you've only watched the Tour this year you probably don't understand how dangerous those sprints at the line can be. They have been very lucky so far this year with no huge bunch sprint crashes, but it does happen frequently, and the GC contenders don't want to be mixed up in that. In fact just having more riders in there sprinting could make a crash more likely. With all the flat stages the next week or so you very well may see what I'm talking about.

    Sally

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    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiddSisko View Post
    :jesuschristfacepalm:
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSally View Post
    With all the flat stages the next week or so you very well may see what I'm talking about.
    good to hear there will be more exciting finishes ahead..today's was actually very good with the 2 battling it out over the final 200m..i just think that if riders know every second counts they will be more likely to break away in the 2-4 mile marker to prevent being caught up in a wreck. it would def change the way the sport is run.

    I'm also excited to see how the no radio contact plays out, IF it happends

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post

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    Senior Member SilverSurfR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    Using nascar as an example (which is prob a horrible example), say you have a 6 hour race each sunday. Keeping race results by who's "in the pack" would be awful!

    Dont you think the most exciting 30 seconds so far during this year's tour was during the team time trial where Lance missed the yellow jesery by miliseconds? i think that feeling would happen every stage!
    I too have just started following the race this year. I think you're just looking at it wrong.
    The way I see it... trying to stick to your car analogy
    The TdF is a series of different stages, TTs (for time trialists), flat stages (for sprinters), mountain stages (for climbers). Think of having drag racers (sprinters), nascar (time trialists), and rally racers (poor metaphor for climbers, but you get the picture) all together in the same race. Now picture a mass of 180 cars trying to all beat each other to a finish line to gain milliseconds over each other. That isn't going to end well or safely. Especially if you're trying to gain time in a stage that isn't your forte.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    good to hear there will be more exciting finishes ahead..today's was actually very good with the 2 battling it out over the final 200m..i just think that if riders know every second counts they will be more likely to break away in the 2-4 mile marker to prevent being caught up in a wreck. it would def change the way the sport is run.

    I'm also excited to see how the no radio contact plays out, IF it happends
    Actually, it won't. You have evidently never raced. The racers have their own etiquette which keep things safe. If you aren't a sprinter but you are up with the fast guys going backwards during the sprint, you'll get yelled at.

    You see, you don't get it. You are thinking of this in terms of what you'd like to see; not seeing the sport within it's definition. You haven't felt what it's like to try to break away from a pack going 30+ mph, or sprinting at 40mph inches away from other riders. Not everyone can sprint. Not everyone can climb a hill. Lance Armstrong would get absolutely blown away by a Cavendish or a Boonen in a sprint. More so for the likes of a more pure climber like Contador.

    And the difference between Nascar and road racing is that in road racing, it takes no skill at all to sit in 22nd place vs. 23rd. This isn't nascar where there are only a dozen cars on the track and each car takes up a third of the road and every spot it precious. The time splits represent difference in effort or skill. The guy in 22nd place is doing nothing special over the guy sitting in 23rd spot. So he doesn't get a time bonus. See how that works? You have to do something special to gain some time on your competitors.

    Also, unlike a sport like nascar, the peloton needs to foster cooperation. There are formal rules fostering cooperation, like the peloton getting the same time at the finish, and there are many many informal rules of etiquette which results in the smoothly flowing peloton you see on TV. You are riding on an inherently unstable machine next to a guy who can put you in the ditch if he wanted to. Same goes for the other guy. The rules of etiquette, formal and informal, keep road racing from becoming a roller derby.
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    BR, all good points which satisfy my question.

    the only reason why i am asking this is
    1. to enhance my understanding for the sport
    2. defend our sport from people who don't understand it.

    The only experience i have with group riding is during my charity ride where myself and the faster riders on the route created our own little pack of 20-25 riders going at a moderate pace...which is laughable compared to tdf

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    BR, all good points which satisfy my question.

    the only reason why i am asking this is
    1. to enhance my understanding for the sport
    2. defend our sport from people who don't understand it.

    The only experience i have with group riding is during my charity ride where myself and the faster riders on the route created our own little pack of 20-25 riders going at a moderate pace...which is laughable compared to tdf
    Obviously you're not traveling as fast, but it gives you a taste of the experience.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  20. #20
    pluralis majestatis redfooj's Avatar
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    not a big fan of the tour set up this year round... too many bunch finishes and not enough separation like you said. the profiles of the stages this year isnt conducive to having multiple chases. hopefully there'll be strong winds to split the peloton but and there's the alps to look forward to

  21. #21
    kuf
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickthaquick1 View Post
    ehhh, i dont know... I get it, sure its safe. but isnt bad luck part of racing? I love the TdF and have been following it closely this year (being in France during last year's was what got me into cycling!) but i feel like after watching it for 2 hours a day and seeing the times EXACTLY as they were the day before is a little dissapointing...I second here, two seconds there, i think that it would make the entire race more exciting, not just the finish
    We've been really luck as far as crashes so far this year. Here are some from the past: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IryGkJB1VTg

    search youtube for more videos of crashes in TdF sprints. They are not good. Mixing the GC contenders in there would just be a recipe for disaster. Levi broke his hip in a crash during the chaos before a sprint in the TdF one year (at 0:55 in video). Crashes are much more common in the first week when riders' legs are fresh, and people are antsy.

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