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  1. #1
    Senior Member Gotte's Avatar
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    Vinokourov question

    I read somewhere that Vinokourov is due to return to Astana next year (?), after he's served out his ban. I got the impression that his return was not wanted, even by the team manager, but that no one could stop him. How is that. Surely he has to be invited back in, and has no right just to return. Did I read it wrong, or is there something, a contract maybe, that means he can;t be stopped from returning?

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    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
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    Nope you read it right. He is staging a coup and being a Kazakh, chances are they will force the issue.
    Brian | 2015 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 3 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp
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    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.

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    Check out the "related articles" on the right.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/alexandre-vinokourov



    Check out some forum articles..... lots written about it.
    http://forum.cyclingnews.com/search.php?searchid=54098

    From all accounts, this is the end Astana as currently known. I find it funny, Vino wants "his baby" back. Well, "his baby" was full of suspended dopers and they were going nowhere before Bruyneel took over. Now he wants to take over something someone else cleaned up . . . . pretty f'd up. He'll get his way because of the Kazaks are backing him. You won't see him at the TDF however, ASO will never let him back. Astana will likely not be invited back either. If he insists on taking the team . . . there won't be much of a team left. Pro Cycling can't afford to lose another team.... but there ya go.

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    Senior Member Gotte's Avatar
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    Thanks for clearing that up. Interesting reads, as well. I'm assuming the hints that LA will set up his own team nest year kind of beds in with V's assertions that he will be back.

    Again, many thanks.

  5. #5
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
    Check out the "related articles" on the right.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/alexandre-vinokourov


    I think there is little doubt that Bruyneel and Armstrong are out, and that Vinokourov is in at Astana.
    The Kazak sponsors whole motivation was having a platform for Vino.

    However, the thought that they will keep Contador is delusional. Contador would be an idiot be on a team built for Vinokourov. He certainly does not want to sit out another TDF.

    Contador is half way to Caisse de Espargne already.
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    Señor Member kimconyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    I think there is little doubt that Bruyneel and Armstrong are out, and that Vinokourov is in at Astana.
    The Kazak sponsors whole motivation was having a platform for Vino.

    However, the thought that they will keep Contador is delusional. Contador would be an idiot be on a team built for Vinokourov. He certainly does not want to sit out another TDF.

    Contador is half way to Caisse de Espargne already.
    This is what I'm thinking as well. They already have a good team and will also have Valverde as a 2nd option next year.

    Better team kit and arguably the best bike in the peloton.

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    Home, home again Pharmr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Contador is half way to Caisse de Espargne already.
    man I hope so...he deserves better.

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Rumor was he was working to help Valverde in the Dauphine, to court some goodwill for next year, and perhaps some support for this year's TDF.
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    I think it's clear that Lance is planting seeds of riding next year to help line up sponsors for his own team. Team LiveSTRONG with Nike as the primary sponsor seems likely, and Brunyeel on as TD. Lance will co-TD with Brunyeel the following year when he retires. He'll want Contador or some other big up and comer as the "heir appearant" on the team next year, as lance does one more tour.

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    Home, home again Pharmr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechKnowGN View Post
    I think it's clear that Lance is planting seeds of riding next year to help line up sponsors for his own team. Team LiveSTRONG with Nike as the primary sponsor seems likely, and Brunyeel on as TD. Lance will co-TD with Brunyeel the following year when he retires. He'll want Contador or some other big up and comer as the "heir appearant" on the team next year, as lance does one more tour.
    that may be what Lance wants....but do you think that AC wants to be his domestique for another year??...what if Lance decides he wants to stay another year after that??...I just don't see how either of them can stay on the same team, there's just not enough room IMO.

    Alberto deserves his own team, and I sure hope he gets one soon....that way Levi can be Lance's next Hincapie(as long as they keep throwing him a win in California)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharmr View Post
    that may be what Lance wants....but do you think that AC wants to be his domestique for another year??...what if Lance decides he wants to stay another year after that??...I just don't see how either of them can stay on the same team, there's just not enough room IMO.

    Alberto deserves his own team, and I sure hope he gets one soon....that way Levi can be Lance's next Hincapie(as long as they keep throwing him a win in California)

    deserves one? I dont that any rider "deserves" a team. If a sponsor thinks so, then they get one. But the best rider in the world will be able to find a team.

    Otherwise, Assuming Lance does one more year, there is no doubt he and his TD can throw together the best team on the planet. Maybe Lance wants AC to bow down to the most prolific TdF winner ever, and sorry, but I'm fine with someone who has won the race that many times expecting to command respect. Especially if he can still hang, which so far it sure looks like he can. If he can go head to head against AC and comes up short, then good for AC. And if Lance beats him, he's earned AC's respect.
    Last edited by TechKnowGN; 07-13-09 at 02:23 PM.

  12. #12
    Home, home again Pharmr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechKnowGN View Post
    but I'm fine with someone who has won the race that many times expecting to command respect. .
    I could say the same about someone who won ALL 3 Grand Tour Events in a 12 month period

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    I swear they told Contador he was going to be the GC guy in the tour this year. Or am I just getting old?

    Vino might get the Kazakhs to pay up, but I don't see why given his doping problems. I think the team is down the tubes, as is Vino's potential as anything other than a support rider. Team Astana doesn't need sponsors that don't pay, if anyone could get another sponsor, it's that team. Even without AC.

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Deos anybody know the Astana team's structure. My assumption is that the Kzak backers are the guys who actually own the team, control the license. So I don't think its like Bruyneel can just take the current Astana team, and change the name and get a new sponsor.

    The team is typically different from the sponsor. For example, the Discovery Team was owned by Tailwind Sports. With Astana, I think its the Kazak backers that own and control the team ,but I could be wrong.
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    Randomhead
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    It wouldn't surprise me if you were correct, didn't Vinokourov effectively put the team together? I assume getting a team license is just a matter of having the money and salary guarantee in addition to an acceptable reputation. I'm guessing that the Kazakhs and Vino are missing the latter.

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    lead on macduff!
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    wish euskatel had the money to pony up and woo contador over to their team. i think in
    recent years they've "relaxed" their rules as to include "outside" riders. would love to
    see the orange blur headed uphill for the win.

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    meb
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    I swear they told Contador he was going to be the GC guy in the tour this year. Or am I just getting old?

    Vino might get the Kazakhs to pay up, but I don't see why given his doping problems. I think the team is down the tubes, as is Vino's potential as anything other than a support rider. Team Astana doesn't need sponsors that don't pay, if anyone could get another sponsor, it's that team. Even without AC.
    Contador was either going to be number 1 for the Tour or he was leaving.

  18. #18
    meb
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Deos anybody know the Astana team's structure. My assumption is that the Kzak backers are the guys who actually own the team, control the license. So I don't think its like Bruyneel can just take the current Astana team, and change the name and get a new sponsor.

    The team is typically different from the sponsor. For example, the Discovery Team was owned by Tailwind Sports. With Astana, I think its the Kazak backers that own and control the team ,but I could be wrong.
    Kazak owned, but most of the rider contracts are subcontracted to ride for Bruyneel. Bruyneel has a contract with the team to supply the riders. Bruyneel can form his own team or contract to a different team and bring his subcontracted riders with him.

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    Home, home again Pharmr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
    wish euskatel had the money to pony up and woo contador over to their team. i think in
    recent years they've "relaxed" their rules as to include "outside" riders. would love to
    see the orange blur headed uphill for the win.

    I'm not sure Alberto has any Basque lineage in him...but if they have "relaxed" the rules like you say....I'm sure they could figure a way around that....like some forgotten Aunt from San Sebastian or something similar

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    meb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharmr View Post
    I'm not sure Alberto has any Basque lineage in him...but if they have "relaxed" the rules like you say....I'm sure they could figure a way around that....like some forgotten Aunt from San Sebastian or something similar
    Madrid.

  21. #21
    Señor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Vino can keep Muravyev. The rider I'm uncertain about is Kloden.
    The search for inner peace continues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by meb View Post
    Contador was either going to be number 1 for the Tour or he was leaving.
    He asked to leave, Bruyneel told him no. Bruyneel also said he would decide who is leading. One of the things Bruyneel pointed out was that Contador won the 07 Tour & the 08 Vuelta by very slim margins & Levi was very close behind him in both.

  23. #23
    meb
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    Vino can keep Muravyev. The rider I'm uncertain about is Kloden.
    Since Kloden was there before Bruyneel , Andreas probably is contracted to Astana unless his original contract ran out. Anyone know how long a contract he initially signed?

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