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  1. #1
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    July 23 166.5 km
    Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

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  2. #2
    don d.
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  3. #3
    BikeForums Founder Joe Gardner's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Heeeeeere's Johnny! live311's Avatar
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    I didn't realize there were a couple more hills on this stage. It looks like Lance will be able to put a few more nails in the coffins of his rivals. Or will the sprinters come back from the dead on this long downhill finish? Stay tuned

    Speeling edited for smartasses
    Last edited by live311; 07-23-04 at 08:49 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by live311
    I didn't realize there were a couple more hills on this stage. It looks like Lance will be able to put a few more nails in the coffins of his rivals. Or will the printers come back from the dead on this long downhill finish? Stay tuned
    If the printers win that will really be the story of the tour. I didn't even know any were participating. These aren't really serious hills after the Cote de Lajoux so Armstrong or his rivals won't try anything, but a decent climbing sprinter like Zabel or O'Grady could have a good chance at a sprint. That's if the escape group doesn't stay away.

  6. #6
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    "13 H 56 - Armstrong Contributing To Tempo...
    The yellow jersey is cooperating with the seven others at the front of the stage. This group is now 1'50" ahead of the peloton.
    Lance Armstrong chased down the counter-attack from Simeoni and together these two caught the six escapees at the 36km mark."

    haha... truely The Boss. Forced Simeoni to go back to the peloton, ruining any chance of a stage win.

  7. #7
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Is Lance a Padrone or what?
    that move looked like Merckx, or Hinault, I'm really glad to see it
    Lance has been too laid back before.
    Talk about a smackdown.
    Simeoni has been "making statements" all tour. I think Lance just
    had the final word.

    marty
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  8. #8
    No one carries the DogBoy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    Simeoni has been "making statements" all tour. I think Lance just
    had the final word.
    What's the deal with these two? I heard something about Simeoni suing Lance? Anyone have the scoop here? I was just shocked that the other teams would let Lance go that far ahead. Did they know he was just stopping Simeoni? This whole thing confused me.

  9. #9
    Dancing on the Pedals Corsaire's Avatar
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    Yeh, I'd like to know too, those two have a little animosity, on this stage Lance went out just to chase Simone just to prove a point.
    Who knows the scoop?
    Corsaire

  10. #10
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
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    Simeoni testified against Dr. Michele Ferrari in a trial and Lance called him a liar. Now Simeoni is suing him for slander.

  11. #11
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    Is Lance a Padrone or what?
    that move looked like Merckx, or Hinault, I'm really glad to see it
    Lance has been too laid back before.
    Talk about a smackdown.
    Simeoni has been "making statements" all tour. I think Lance just
    had the final word.

    marty
    Uhhh, I think the "statements" that Simeoni has been making are in response to media inquiries about his lawsuit against LA for defamation of character.

    Armstrongs actions today bore no resemblance to anything I ever saw Merckx or Hinault do. It looked more like a petty vendetta against someone who has had the audacity to speak out against LA.

    Perhaps you can refer me to an incident where Merckx or Hinault rode down a low placed rider and prevented him from working in a breakaway?

    I kinda wish it would've been Robbie who was in Simeoni's position. I would've loved to have seen Robbie's reaction to that intimidation.
    Last edited by don d.; 07-23-04 at 12:35 PM.

  12. #12
    In Difficulty rygreen's Avatar
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    Yeah, Lance can be a pretty ornery bastard if you aren't on "his side." Has anyone seen the new piece that ESPN is running? It has interviews with a bunch of people who said things in the press which could have been construed as anti-Lance. They all received calls from Lance in which he threatened them.

  13. #13
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don d.
    Uhhh, I think the "statements" that Simeoni has been making are in response to media inquiries about his lawsuit against LA for defamation of character. This bore no resemblance to anything I ever saw Hinault do.
    You mean like lie to Greg LeMond?
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  14. #14
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    You mean like lie to Greg LeMond?
    Help me out here. I think you're trying to say that Hinault was a patron and he lied(alledgedly ) to Lemond and Armstrong is a patron and he ruined Simeoni's chances for a stage so there is some kind of parallel between LA's actions today and Hinault's actions? (insert emoticon for confused here.)

    I don't see the connection, unless you're saying that neither case was an example of a rider acting as a patron but rather each was displaying a base side to their personality that was better left unexposed. With the latter I would agree.

    Or you could just be showing your own bitterness towards Hinault....well, ok.

  15. #15
    Senior Member rydwhite's Avatar
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    It seemed like several of the riders in the Peleton were glad that Lance went up and pulled Simeoni back. He got quite a few pats on the back from other riders. I assume that the other leaders in the GC knew that he was just going up to pull Simeoni back. I would really like to hear the real story behind everything that happened.

  16. #16
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydwhite
    It seemed like several of the riders in the Peleton were glad that Lance went up and pulled Simeoni back. He got quite a few pats on the back from other riders. I assume that the other leaders in the GC knew that he was just going up to pull Simeoni back. I would really like to hear the real story behind everything that happened.
    Is it any wonder? Simeoni goes into a courtroom and tells what we must assume is the truth(he hasn't been charged with perjury and his lawsuit hasn't been thrown out of court as frivolous ) and his testimony incriminates other riders, and he suffers backlash.

    Lance was party to this kind of ostracism and blackball techniques before with a French rider, Basson I think it was, who exposed drug use in the peloton, so this is nothing new. But when he feels threatened by others doping, he is the first to tattle(letter to UCI with allegations of doping among Spanish riders) and suffers no backlash because he is a winner.

    Lance's comments quoted at www.cyclingnews.com today are that Simeoni is a rider who is trying to destroy cycling. Does he really think that ***** floats with thinking people?

    No matter what the individual rider's motives, any expose of drug use that is not fabricated is good for cycling, especially from a fan and sponsor perspective.

    Lance is losing me here.

  17. #17
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    My memories of Hinault as patron include him policing riders who attacked on days the riders had agreed to take it easy- either as a protest, or as recuperation. He took his responsibilities- as they were agreed back then- seriously, negotiating on behalf of the peloton, riding on the front in defiance of the organisation, etc.

    I don't know how much personal animosity was involved in, for example, deciding which breaks were allowed to leave the peloton back then. At a guess, I'd say quite a bit- as Bernard was every bit as testy a bastard as Armstrong. That's how you get to be Patron, by dominating, not just with your legs and team, but by force of willpower. Merckx was (but his nasty streak was much smaller), but the likes of Roche, or Indurain wasn't ( the Patron idea was in disrepute in the 90's; I'd say it made a comeback!).

    USPS ride with the metronomic efficiency and adherence to the plan of Banesto at the height of Indurain's powers. They are as single-minded and loyal as Merckx's Molteni squads. Armstrong is as disciplined as Indurain, with the nasty streak of Hinault and aggression of Merckx.
    The difference is Armstrong's freshness, that's why he is on the threshold of a sixth Tour win. When Merckx was winning Milan-San Remo (remind me- seven times?)Armstrong is training. When Hinault was racing the Giro to win, Amstrong is reconnoitring Alpe D'Huez. When Merckx and Hinault were charging around in the falling leaves of Lombardy, lance has his feet up(metaphorically, comparatively).

    He's a great champion, but he's broken the mould that Lemond cracked.

  18. #18
    You're just a fat kid Moistfly's Avatar
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    If there's one thing i've never understood about professional cycling it's this expectation of gentlemanly behavior. I think it's great seeing a rider put the smack down on another ride.

  19. #19
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don d.
    Help me out here. I think you're trying to say that Hinault was a patron and he lied(alledgedly ) to Lemond and Armstrong is a patron and he ruined Simeoni's chances for a stage so there is some kind of parallel between LA's actions today and Hinault's actions? (insert emoticon for confused here.)

    I don't see the connection, unless you're saying that neither case was an example of a rider acting as a patron but rather each was displaying a base side to their personality that was better left unexposed. With the latter I would agree.

    Or you could just be showing your own bitterness towards Hinault....well, ok.
    I interperet "petty vendetta" as a question of character. Same as promising something to someone and then not delivering. Call it what you want.
    Bitterness toward Hinault?...kinda a leap across the universe, eh? When I met him, he was very nice to me. But even HE admitted to "changing his mind"...

    Patron? Sounds like the Godfather...

    FWIW...Cipo did not want Simeoni on the team before the Tour started. Now I am seeing that the Director is raving about his not wanting Cipo on the team to start with.
    Their dinner table was pretty interesting, I am sure.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
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  20. #20
    rider of small bicycles geneman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaneur
    My memories of Hinault as patron include him policing riders who attacked on days the riders had agreed to take it easy- either as a protest, or as recuperation. He took his responsibilities- as they were agreed back then- seriously, negotiating on behalf of the peloton, riding on the front in defiance of the organisation, etc.

    I don't know how much personal animosity was involved in, for example, deciding which breaks were allowed to leave the peloton back then. At a guess, I'd say quite a bit- as Bernard was every bit as testy a bastard as Armstrong. That's how you get to be Patron, by dominating, not just with your legs and team, but by force of willpower. Merckx was (but his nasty streak was much smaller), but the likes of Roche, or Indurain wasn't ( the Patron idea was in disrepute in the 90's; I'd say it made a comeback!).

    USPS ride with the metronomic efficiency and adherence to the plan of Banesto at the height of Indurain's powers. They are as single-minded and loyal as Merckx's Molteni squads. Armstrong is as disciplined as Indurain, with the nasty streak of Hinault and aggression of Merckx.
    The difference is Armstrong's freshness, that's why he is on the threshold of a sixth Tour win. When Merckx was winning Milan-San Remo (remind me- seven times?)Armstrong is training. When Hinault was racing the Giro to win, Amstrong is reconnoitring Alpe D'Huez. When Merckx and Hinault were charging around in the falling leaves of Lombardy, lance has his feet up(metaphorically, comparatively).

    He's a great champion, but he's broken the mould that Lemond cracked.
    extremely well put. thanks.

    -mark

  21. #21
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaneur
    My memories of Hinault as patron include him policing riders who attacked on days the riders had agreed to take it easy- either as a protest, or as recuperation. He took his responsibilities- as they were agreed back then- seriously, negotiating on behalf of the peloton, riding on the front in defiance of the organisation, etc.
    This is what a patron has always been, more of an advocate or voice for the peloton. If Lance was acting as a patron today, the peloton is saying something I don't want to hear them say.

  22. #22
    SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07 Walter's Avatar
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    This is what a patron has always been, more of an advocate or voice for the peloton. If Lance was acting as a patron today, the peloton is saying something I don't want to hear them say.
    That's quite possibly it. It's not just LA saying he was congratulated for the move. The other members of the break wanted Simeoni gone. Of course that's probably b/c they wanted LA gone before USPS/T-Mobile/CSC showed up too. Simeoni's DS confirmed the abuse his rider took from others in the peloton as well as his team (Cipo). In fact the D-V DS managed to turn the conversation into an anti-Cipo tirade even though Cipo's been gone for 2 weeks and is probably sitting on a beach somewhere.

    Apparently any rider talking about doping is risking ostracism. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not certain.



    PS: I'm still not getting the QUOTE function right, could someone give me easy directions?
    “Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
    Edna St. Vincent Millay

  23. #23
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter
    PS: I'm still not getting the QUOTE function right, could someone give me easy directions?
    It looks right to me. What am I missing?

  24. #24
    CyclePath Crank It Up's Avatar
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    I'm still perplexed by the squabbling between LA and Simeoni. It seems that Simeoni has been "blacklisted" amongst his colleagues by breaking some unwritten "code of silence", i.e., snitching on his fellow riders? Simeoni ISN'T allowed to catch a break and possibly win a stage just because fellow riders dislike him; he might as well QUIT this sport. I'm just really surprised to see Lance so worked up over a small-player like Simeoni. Enough of this petty peloton politics already and just COMPETE!!!

  25. #25
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Don,

    from Eurosport July 13
    On his feud with Lance Armstrong: "I attacked for personal pride today. I love cycling and I've dedicated my life to cycling but I've been unfairly treated and so there's a lot of anger and desire for revenge in my heart.

    "I wanted to show that today at the Tour de France by riding well and winning a stage. Unfortunately it didn't come off but I'll try again."
    There are a few other quotes (I can't seem to find them) basically saying he
    wanted to win a stage to prove that a "clean" rider could do so.

    Thats what I was referring to.

    Walter, I concur the quotes look fine. If you want to quote someone specific
    put in Brackets no spaces [ quote=walter (or whoever) ] and at end [ / quote ]
    if not quoting someone leave out the =username.

    Marty
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